Total Pageviews

Wednesday, May 16, 2012

Robin "Nichiren" Buddhist of the Ikeda Sect Responds (1)

Robin "Nichiren" Buddhist of the Ikeda Sect responds to the post, The Soka Gakkai is a Destructive Cult by Definition:

1). Destructive cults actively recruit new members, often through deceptive “front” organization

Robin: Many thanks for responding to my post. I’ll try and respond to your points as best I can. I’ve had a quick look at your blog to try and familiarize myself with your beliefs.

I found it a little difficult to search around your site though and while some people may look forward to all the SGI / IKEDA posts, I have enjoyed reading the articles I’ve come across that focus specifically on the LOTUS SUTRA and would genuinely like to know more about the BASICS of Kempon Hokke, but as the blog seems predominantly anti-SGI, it’s hard to find the basics of your faith and practice. As a gentle suggestion, it might be an idea to add labels to your posts, so that people can find SGI, LOTUS or KEMPON posts more easily.

Mark: The basics of the Kempon Hokke are the same Three Treasures and Three Great Secret Laws as taught by Nichiren Daishonin and the principle of the Transmission Through the Scrolls of the Sutra [Gohonzon and Twenty--Eight Chapter Lotus Sutra] and Writings of Nichiren Daishonin. We Chant the Daimoku, Namu Myoho renge kyo and recite the Second and 16th Chapters of the Lotus Sutra as prescribed by Nichiren:

Robin: Personally, as an enquiring mind, I would much rather have the facts of your religion and then decide for myself what to believe in rather than just be continually told why I shouldn’t believe in something else.

Mark: The writing, Establishment of the Correct Law for the Peace of the Land teaches, "Rather than offering up ten thousand prayers for remedy, it would be better simply to outlaw this one evil."

The facts of our religion are easy to research and readily appreciated through our faith and practice. Outlawing the "one great evil" of the Soka Gakkai is a difficult endeavor. Our struggle with the Fuji sects is no less serious and profound than Nichiren's struggle with the Pure Land and Shingon: http://kemponhokke.blogspot.com/2012/01/time-circumstance-and-teachings-kempon.html

Robin: While the anti-SGI stuff may attract a lot of support from like-minded people, it may turn off some people that are actually interested in learning the differences between the Nichiren Sects and deciding for themselves which one is teaching the true Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra. Countless examples of why the SGI is wrong, is not proof that Kempon Hokke is right and may turn away the very audience you are hoping to reach.

Mark: Several points: At this time, we are far more concerned about quality and preserving the correct teachings than we are with numbers. The spread of the true teachings will last as long as the Latter Day, for ten thousand years and more and the number of faithful believers, according to Nichiren [at least for the forseeable future], will be less than the amount of dirt that can fit on a fingernail; we are growing at a rate of hundreds of percent a year and our members are not drawn solely from the SGI, the Nichiren Shoshu, and the Nichiren Shu. We are attracting new members, with little or no background in Nichiren's Lotus Sutra Buddhism who are as fresh as the first blossoms of spring.;I advise you to worry more about the deeply flawed teachings of the Ikeda Cult that is hemorrhaging members than the Pure and Perfect teachings of the Kempon Hokke that is experiencing steady growth.

1). The SGI has the Boston Research Center, the Institute for Oriental Philosophy, and others where their affiliation to SGI is rarely if ever mentioned.

Robin: The Boston Research Center is now called the Ikeda Center for Peace, Learning, and Dialogue and the Institute for Oriental Philosophy mentions its association with the SGI on its UK homepage and the history page of the IOP Japan page. Maybe these have just been updated since your post on May 12.

Mark: The SGI also has dozens, if not hundreds, of deceptive front organizations, some that you might be familiar with, such as Victory Over Violence, and others that I'm sure even you are not familiar with, for example: SGI has several charter schools in the United States where even some of the teachers don't know that they are funded and sponsored by the Soka Gakkai; Artists for Peace and Justice; the Japanese equivalent of our 7/11 chain; travel agencies; recording studios; iShining and Phiten products; PCE International; and The Shachokai, a group which consists of CEOs from SG front companies; the World Poetry Society; and here's a list of Soka Gakkai owned companies:

http://antisgi.blog124.fc2.com/blog-entry-4.html

Not to mention their association [cemetary business, banking etc.] with the largest defense contractor in Japan, the Mitsubitchi corporation.


12 comments:

  1. "Rather than offering up ten thousand prayers for remedy, it would be better simply to outlaw this one evil."

    What is the one evil? Is it the SGI or is it all who slander the Lotus Sutra? From your website it would seem that the SGI is the only evil? Is there similar criticism of other Buddhist groups that don’t even have a basis in the Lotus Sutra, such as Tibetan Buddhism, Zen Buddhism, etc. or are they not worthy of being targeted in the Latter Day of the Law, even though they were one of Nichiren’s four maxims. I don’t know the figures, but there must be more Zen, Tibetan and other Buddhist groups that are more prolific in North America especially if the SGI numbers are dropping so drastically. (To be continued in Point 2)

    "At this time, we are far more concerned about quality and preserving the correct teachings than we are with numbers."

    I have no reason to doubt this, and I think it’s a great strategy to build a solid base with a few members that are strong in their adherence to the teachings of Nichiren, but if this were true …

    "We are growing at a rate of hundreds of percent a year and our members are not drawn solely from the SGI, the Nichiren Shoshu, and the Nichiren Shu."

    … why do you then go on to mention that you are growing at a rate of hundreds of percent a year? What is your current membership? 3 members? 50? 200? If you are increasing by 100s of percent a year that means next year you’ll have 9 members? 150? 600?

    Also, If your members are not drawn solely from the SGI, NST and Nichiren Shu and you are proud of your success, especially among non-Buddhists why spend so much time criticising the SGI online, rather than “advertising” yourself to others in a more positive way.

    ReplyDelete
  2. "I advise you to worry more about the deeply flawed teachings of the Ikeda Cult that is hemorrhaging members than the Pure and Perfect teachings of the Kempon Hokke that is experiencing steady growth."

    I’m not too worried about the SGI’s membership and if we are haemorrhaging members, you should be targetting more stable established sects to refute, such as Zen Buddhism or other established Buddhist groups in the US, and leave the SGI to self-destruct by itself.

    Surely the point of propagating your faith is the eternal happiness of humanity and society, rather than a tit for tat, who has the most, who is growing the fastest, who is losing the most members? My priority is that other members in my district continue to see actual proof in their lives due the benefits of Buddhism.

    I’m sure there are people that leave the SGI if they don’t see proof in their lives or feel it’s a cult, but all Buddhist sects and world religions have similar turnover of believers or people that lose faith (maybe due to the death of a loved one) and return again.

    Has Kempon Hokke had no members leave? Has KH not had people return once they left due to a change in their thinking without the faith? This is part and parcel of religion – some people lose faith or change their minds during challenging times. Some leave, some don’t. Some return, some don’t.

    "The SGI also has dozens, if not hundreds, of deceptive front organizations, some that you might be familiar with, such as Victory Over Violence, and others that I'm sure even you are not familiar with."

    Thank you for the link to the extensive list, and you’re right, I wasn’t familiar with Book-Off being part of the SGI even though I used it a lot in Japan. You’ll have to forgive my ignorance though, because I don’t understand the significance of this point with respect to the SGI being a cult.

    How is it a front organization? If you don’t know these companies are partly or wholly SGI owned and the staff are not trying to shakubuku you, what’s the big deal? Surely a cult tricks you to enter an innocent looking establishment (a front) and then tries to convert you?

    Some SGI members will buy things from SGI members or companies, but they’re not forced to. If you choose to shop somewhere that has an SGI flag outside or trust the services of an SGI member or affiliated company, where’s the harm?

    Is the problem that the SGI makes money from these ventures? Again, I don’t see a problem. Does a religion have to take a vow of poverty? Because Nichiren was a monk, do all Nichiren Buddhists have to live in temples or isolate themselves from daily life?

    SGI members live and work in their communities, buying and selling things in their communities, talking to people about their faith and trying to awaken people’s Buddha nature to achieve eternal happiness.

    Is it wrong to have various sources of income if you are a religious organisation?

    ReplyDelete
  3. First of all, most of these companies are owned, not by the Gakkai members but by the Gakkai itself. Do they work for substandard wages? Probably, because the only ones making out like bandits is Ikeda and his two hundred or so top leaders [vice presidents and general directors].

    Mid six figure salaries for teaching the Dharma, doing exactly what any Chapter or Headquarters leader does for free, doesn't seem cultlike to you? Then I feel you have gulped down too much koolaid. Nichiren says, his priests [leaders] should desire and be satisfied with little. You have been hoodwinked Robin. get out while you can.

    I will touch on your other points later

    ReplyDelete
  4. Mark: "Rather than offering up ten thousand prayers for remedy, it would be better simply to outlaw this one evil."

    Robin: What is the one evil? Is it the SGI or is it all who slander the Lotus Sutra? From your website it would seem that the SGI is the only evil? Is there similar criticism of other Buddhist groups that don’t even have a basis in the Lotus Sutra, such as Tibetan Buddhism, Zen Buddhism, etc. or are they not worthy of being targeted in the Latter Day of the Law, even though they were one of Nichiren’s four maxims. I don’t know the figures, but there must be more Zen, Tibetan and other Buddhist groups that are more prolific in North America especially if the SGI numbers are dropping so drastically. (To be continued in Point 2)"

    Mark: At the time of the writing of Establishing the Correct Law for the Peace of the Land, Nichiren cited Pure Land as the one great evil. Nichiren then expanded his criticisms to include Zen and Ritsu and eventually he attacked Shingon. He explained that he initially refrained from attacking shingon because they were difficult to refute and he had not yet established himself as the Supreme Votary of the Lotus Sutra. His most forceful rebuke was reserved for Tendai [the mixture of Shingon and Lotus Buddhism] in the Selection of the Time and Repaying Debts of Gratitude. At this time, we cite the Soka Gakkai as the one great evil because it and the Nichiren Shoshu [the other great evil] are easier to refute than the Nichiren Shu [the third great evil]. as far as our refutation of the lesser evils of the provisional sects, particularly Pure Land, Zen, Vajrayana [Shingon and Tibetian Buddhism, and Hinayana. You are coming late to the internet discussions that have spanned 16 years and have included refutations on: Talk Religion Buddhism; Alt. Zen; Alt. Tibetian Buddhism; Alternate Buddha Short Fat Guy; E-Sangha; Dharmanet; Fraught With Peril The Lotus Sutra Revealing the Original Buddha [before I was kicked off by the SGI leader administrator]...the list goes on and on. No one has been more active than we [me]. Only Chas of the SGI [I forgot his name and don't have the time to look it up] has even come close with his tomes on and refutation of Zen. For some reason, this is his peccadillo and he has, for the most part, limited his refutation to Zen at the expense of the other provisional sects and teachings.

    "At this time, we are far more concerned about quality and preserving the correct teachings than we are with numbers."

    Robin: I have no reason to doubt this, and I think it’s a great strategy to build a solid base with a few members that are strong in their adherence to the teachings of Nichiren, but if this were true …

    "We are growing at a rate of hundreds of percent a year and our members are not drawn solely from the SGI, the Nichiren Shoshu, and the Nichiren Shu."

    … why do you then go on to mention that you are growing at a rate of hundreds of percent a year? What is your current membership? 3 members? 50? 200? If you are increasing by 100s of percent a year that means next year you’ll have 9 members? 150? 600?"

    Mark: Actually, I was speaking of the United States [hundreds of percent increase over the last several years, no doubt because we are a small group]. We have several thousands of practitioners outside of Japan, in Brazil, Cambodia, India, [Brazil and Southeast Asia, principally], the US, the UK, and in Europe.

    "Also, If your members are not drawn solely from the SGI, NST and Nichiren Shu and you are proud of your success, especially among non-Buddhists why spend so much time criticising the SGI online, rather than “advertising” yourself to others in a more positive way."

    Mark: We are honest practitioners and disciples of Shakyamuni buddha and Nichiren Daishonin who present Nichiren Lotus Sutra Buddhism in the same manner as Nichiren himself.

    ReplyDelete
  5. "I advise you to worry more about the deeply flawed teachings of the Ikeda Cult that is hemorrhaging members than the Pure and Perfect teachings of the Kempon Hokke that is experiencing steady growth."

    Robin: I’m not too worried about the SGI’s membership and if we are haemorrhaging members, you should be targetting more stable established sects to refute, such as Zen Buddhism or other established Buddhist groups in the US, and leave the SGI to self-destruct by itself."

    Mark; There are two reasons for the SGI's self destruction: 1). The SGI itself, being punished for their indiscretions and arrogant licentiousness regarding the teachings of the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren and their top down authoritarian pyramidal structure. 2). The ceasless efforts of the Kempon Hokke and others to reveal the dirty face of the SGI.

    Robin; Surely the point of propagating your faith is the eternal happiness of humanity and society, rather than a tit for tat, who has the most, who is growing the fastest, who is losing the most members? My priority is that other members in my district continue to see actual proof in their lives due the benefits of Buddhism.

    Mark: Even in the secular teachings we see the road to hell is paved with noble intentions. Sincerity, caring and kindness is not enough. Also required are the correct teachings and doctrines of Buddhism. This is the foundation for constructing a life of Joy, Purity, Noble Self, and Eternal Self taught by Nichiren Daishonin.

    "The old fox never forgets the hillock where he was born; the white turtle repaid the kindness he had received from Mao Pao. If even lowly creatures know enough to do this, how much more should human beings!"

    Repaying Debts of Gratitude is one of Nichiren Daishonin's most important writings. Nichiren Shonin left it to us for posterity. It a compass to help us grasp the essence of the Lotus Sutra, Namu Myoho renge kyo, and the Master of Teachings, Lord Shakya of the Original Doctrine (Gohonzon). These are the opening lines of Repaying Debts of Gratitude. Nichiren Daishonin spends quite alot of energy in clarifying them and stressing their importance. He further states:

    "Those who learn and practice the teachings of the Buddha should never forget the kindness of their parents, masters and sovereign....."

    He is referring, in general, to those closest to us, whether they be practitioners of Buddhism or not. Specifically, he is referring to the Buddha (Parent, Teacher, and and Sovereign). The Daishonin goes on to say:

    "What is the best way for Buddhists to express their gratitude for the unfathomable kindness which they have received? Mastering Buddhism
    completely and to be sagacious is the way."

    This is very explicit. He then expands on the above passage:

    "How can anyone guide blind persons across a bridge, if he himself is blind?"

    ReplyDelete
  6. Continued....

    SGI leaders and members abandon or ignore many of the core doctrines of the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren Daishonin and replace them with their own self-serving and distorted doctrines unique to the Fuji sect. Ignoring the crystal clear doctrine that the Eternal Original Buddha is Shakyamuni is to be blind. Ignoring that Nichiren Shonin never taught the doctrine of the so-called DaiGohonzon is to be blind. Ignoring that the Lotus Sutra (Myoho renge kyo) is what we devote ourselves to is to be blind. Ignoring that the Daishonin did not select one sole heir is to be blind and ignoring that our masters are none other than the Original Eternal Buddha, the Law, and Nichiren Daishonin, is to be blind. To believe that the Human revolution "is the Gosho of the modern age" and to believe that the writings of Nichiren Shonin has somehow supplanted the Lotus Sutra too, is to be blind.

    The Daishonin subsequently states:

    ".... Mastering Buddhism, however, remains impossible without enoughtime to absorb it. And if you are to have enough time to study, it is
    impossible to obey one's parents, masters and sovereign. Those who aim at attaining Buddhahood cannot afford to be obedient to parents masters and sovereign until they reach the ultimate way to cut the chain of birth and
    death....

    "Time to absorb it" is impossible with the many counterproductive and worthless activities of the SGI which do not afford one the time to absorb Buddhism. If we are to absorb Buddhism, we should not obey even our parents, teachers and sovereigns, let alone our friends, or those who would take away our precious time to master Buddhism and attain Buddhahood. We "cannot afford to be obedient" to those who distract us from our great vow. President Ikeda and the SGI would have us spend our precious time on World Tribune promotion, leaders meetings, statistics, "study" meetings, reading the Human Revolution, the New Human Revolution, the Newest Human Revolution, the many writings of Ikeda, and reading the World Tribune. This is at the expense of reading the Lotus Sutra, the Gosho, the Nirvana Sutra, the provisional sutras and other religious and important secular works (in order to convert the provisional Buddhists and non-Buddhists and to "protect what the Buddha has entrusted to us" which is the Lotus Sutra and the authentic teachings of Nichiren Daishonin). After we have mastered Buddhism and obtained Buddhahood, then and only then can we be said to be obedient to our parents, sovereign, and masters.

    The Daishonin shows us the virtue of abandoning those who would hinder our attainment of Buddhahood.

    "Most people consider disobeying ones parents and sovereign to be against the morals of society and wishes of the Buddha. In one of the Confucian canons, however, it is stated that sometimes one can remain loyal to one's lord
    and filial to his parents even if he does not obey them and even if he admonishes them."

    This is the relationship the orthodox practitioners of Buddhism have with the SGI and NST practitioners, the realationship people like Rev. Tarabini, Rev. Tsuchiya, myself and others have with the SGI.

    Nichiren Shonin restates this point:

    "A Buddhist Sutra states: 'The true way of recompensing indebtedness to parents is to stop obeying them and enter the true way of Buddhism...."

    Having a correct object of worship, revering the Original Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni, revering the Lotus Sutra, and doing shakabuku in this dreaded age, as the Daishonin did, is to enter the true way of Buddhism.

    The Daishonin then cites the example of Shakyamuni:

    "In Buddhism, prince Siddhartha, who disobeyed his father, king Suddhodana, became the most filial son in the the triple world."

    ReplyDelete
  7. continued...

    Chapter 15 of the Lotus Sutra explains that we are the Buddha's foremost disciples from the infinite past and have a profound connection to the Sutra (Myoho renge kyo). Therefore, we will encounter Myoho renge kyo wherever and whenever we find ourselves. It is not due to the SGI that we have encountered Buddhism. It is due to Shakyamuni Buddha. We were introduced to the teachings in the infinite past and have been practicing them ever since. Were it not the SGI, it would have been an independent, a Nichiren Shoshu member, a Nichiren Shu member, a Kempon Hokke member, or through the internet that we would have again encountered the Law.

    In order to repay our debt of gratitude to our brothers, sisters, fathers and mothers in and out of the SGI we have no choice other than to leave "home", obtain Buddhahood, and to open their blind eyes so that they too may reach the other shore.

    Now, as far as our harsh manner of addressing Ikeda and the SGI, here is what Nichiren taught about his manner in his attempts to convert his former Master Dozenbo:

    Even though one may resort to harsh words, if such words help the person to whom they are addressed, then they are worthy to be regarded as truthful words and gentle words. Similarly, though one may use gentle words, if they harm the person to whom they are addressed, they are in fact deceptive words, harsh words.

    The Buddhist doctrines preached by scholars these days are regarded by most people as gentle words, truthful words, but in fact they are all harsh words and deceptive words. I say this because they are at variance with the Lotus Sutra, which embodies the Buddha’s true intention.

    On the other hand, when I proclaim that the practitioners of the Nembutsu will fall into the hell of incessant suffering or declare that the Zen and True Word schools are likewise in error, people may think I am uttering harsh words, but in fact I am speaking truthful and gentle words. As an example, I may point to the fact that Dozen-bo has embraced the Lotus Sutra and fashioned an image of Shakyamuni Buddha, actions that came about because I spoke harshly to him. And the same thing holds true for all the people of Japan. Ten or more years ago, virtually everyone was reciting the Nembutsu. But now, out of ten persons, you will find that one or two chant only Namu-myoho-renge-kyo, while two or three recite it along with the Nembutsu. And even among those who recite the Nembutsu exclusively, there are those who have begun to have doubts and so in their hearts believe in the Lotus Sutra; some have even begun to paint or carve images of Shakyamuni Buddha. All this, too, has come about because I have spoken harsh words." -- The Tripitaka Master Shan-Wu-Wei [Ikeda]

    ReplyDelete
  8. Robin: I’m sure there are people that leave the SGI if they don’t see proof in their lives or feel it’s a cult, but all Buddhist sects and world religions have similar turnover of believers or people that lose faith (maybe due to the death of a loved one) and return again.

    Has Kempon Hokke had no members leave? Has KH not had people return once they left due to a change in their thinking without the faith? This is part and parcel of religion – some people lose faith or change their minds during challenging times. Some leave, some don’t. Some return, some don’t."

    Mark: Very very few people abandon the Kempon Hokke faith because we don't give out the sacred Gohonzon like Las Vegas escort fliers.

    Already, hundreds, if not thousands, have abandoned the SGI and embraced that which is orthodox, thanks, in no small part to the efforts of the sincere members of the Kempon Hokke. In the United States, over the last thirty years for example, the SGI gave out 600,000 Gohonzons and if we are to believe the World Tribune circulation figures, less than 40,000 SGI believers remain. What happened to the majority of the 560,000 people who received the slanderous SGI Nichikan No-honzon, never again to chant the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra in this life? Do Bodhisattvas of the Earth give out sacred Gohonzon like candy? Do Bodhisattvas of the Earth fail to protect their precious comrades? One day, thanks to the Kempon Hokke, there will be those who left the SGI who will again return to the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra. At that time they will return as Bodhisattvas of the Earth.

    ReplyDelete
  9. I think i gave you much to think about. After you have digested this, Robin, if you like, i can present to you the tax return figures of your humble modest SGI top leaders whom I term, SGI Senior Leeches.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Since Daisaku Ikeda is lauded as "the world's foremost authority on Nichiren Buddhism" (see Ikeda's vanity press Middle Way Press for that statement), why is it that not a single notable Ikeda has had a "dialogue" with has joined SGI or started chanting? Not ONE. If "the world's foremost authority" can't sell it, who can?

    ReplyDelete
  11. Hi Doris. Thanks for your post. Point well taken. SGI would argue that he "sold it" to millions of people worldwide. I argue that what Ikeda sells is not Nichiren's Buddhism but fictions of his own making. I also argue that he never once, in all his dialogues with influential people, uttered the lions roar, refuting their mistaken idealogies and religions.

    ReplyDelete
  12. I agree with both of you. The message he's selling his members is a perversion of Nichiren Buddhism. The message he's selling to the outside world isn't Buddhism at all. In his dialogs, he talks about Buddhism in a sort of academic manner, rather than trying to convince them of the validity of Buddhism or trying to convince them to take up the practice themselves. And worse than that, he even conflates Buddhism with their own religions for them, just in case they might be getting slightly uncomfortable having a conversation with a religious leader. Sort of like if I ran into my neighbor one day and she said she was going to church and I said I sometimes go to the Buddhist temple, because I'm a Buddhist, and she says, "Oh, what's that?" And I say, "We chant, which the way Buddhists pray to develop our spirit." How are you going to convert anyone that way? My neighbor is going to think, "That's nice" and go on with her life. He did propagate Buddhism at one time, under the direction of Toda, but he doesn't do that anymore. He can't take credit for the worldwide propagation, because it's local leaders around the world who are responsible for the "boots on the ground" actual conversions of all of those people.

    ReplyDelete