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Sunday, August 28, 2016

Dropping the character Mu

In SGI's writings, the character Mu has been dropped ten billion times. Nichiren, on the other hand, never once in forty years ever dropped the character Mu.

"In the ninth volume of the Nirvana Sutra we read: “Good man, there are icchantikas, or persons of incorrigible disbelief. They pretend to be arhats, living in deserted places and speaking slanderously of the correct and equal sutras of the great vehicle. When ordinary people see them, they all suppose that they are true arhats and speak of them as great bodhisattvas.” It also says: “At that time, this sutra will be widely propagated throughout Jambudvīpa. In that age there will be evil monks who will steal this sutra and divide it into many parts, losing the color, scent, and flavor of the correct teaching that it contains. These evil men will read and recite this sutra, but they will ignore and put aside the profound and vital principles that the Thus Come One has expounded in it and replace them with ornate rhetoric and meaningless talk. They will tear off the first part of the sutra and stick it on at the end, tear off the end and put it at the beginning, put the end and the beginning in the middle and the middle at the beginning or the end. You must understand that these evil monks are the companions of the devil."

"Again, a single character equals innumerable others, for the validity of the sutra was attested to by the Buddhas of the ten directions. The treasures bestowed by a single wish-granting jewel equal those bestowed by two such jewels or by innumerable jewels. Likewise, each character in the Lotus Sutra is like a single wish-granting jewel, and the innumerable characters of the sutra are like innumerable jewels. The character myō was uttered by two tongues: the tongues of Shakyamuni and Many Treasures. The tongues of these two Buddhas are like an eight-petaled lotus flower, one petal overlapping another, on which rests a jewel, the character of myō.

"A single character of the Lotus Sutra is like the great earth, which gives rise to all things. A single character is like the great ocean, which contains the water from all rivers. A single character is like the sun and moon, which illuminate all four continents.

"Similarly, though we gather together all the various sutras, such as the Flower Garland Sutra, the Āgama sutras, the Correct and Equal sutras, the Wisdom, Nirvana, Mahāvairochana, and Meditation sutras, they could never equal even a single character of the Lotus Sutra."

"...Every single character in this sutra represents the true intention of the Buddhas, and every brushstroke of it is a source of aid to those who repeat the cycle of birth and death. There is not a single word in it that is untrue."

“The Lotus Sutra of the Wonderful Law, before which I bow my head, in its single case, with its eight scrolls, twenty-eight chapters, and 69,384 characters, is in each and every one of its characters the true Buddha who preaches the Law for the benefit of living beings.”

"Every single character in this sutra represents the true intention of the Buddhas, and every brushstroke of it is a source of aid to those who repeat the cycle of birth and death. There is not a single word in it that is untrue."

"If one discards one word or even one brushstroke of the sutra, the offense is graver than that of one who kills one’s parents ten million times over, or even of one who sheds the blood of all the Buddhas in the ten directions." 

"The eighth volume of The Annotations on “Great Concentration and Insight” states, “So long as a person does not try to depart from the sufferings of birth and death and aspire to the Buddha vehicle, the devilwill watch over him like a parent.” This passage means that, even thougha person may cultivate roots of goodness, so long as he practicesNembutsu, True Word, Zen, Precepts, or any teaching other than theLotus Sutra, he will have the devil king for a parent. The devil king will possess and cause other persons to respect him and give him alms, and people will be deluded into believing that he is a truly enlightened priest. If he is honored by the sovereign, for instance, the people are sureto offer him alms. On the other hand, a priest who incurs the enmity of the ruler and others [because of the Lotus Sutra] is surely practicing the correct teaching."

For this reason alone, SGI is not Nichiren's Lotus Sutra Buddhism. For this reason alone, not one Gakkai member receives the boundless benefit of the Law.

116 comments:


  1. I have some information for you regarding the pronunciation from Japanese sound pronunciation experts that you continue not to acknowledge

    Historical kana usage: How to read Spellings in Historical kana usage have been unchanged all the time in spite of changes of pronunciation.

    Now we are reading those spellings with modern pronunciation.

    ●In case of Ancient writings, the next rule is added.

     む (mu) of an auxiliary verb is to be read with
    ん N or M depending on what sound comes after
     
    E.g. Na m Myoho lips are together when we pronounce M 
    Ko n ni chi wa lips open when we pronounce N
     

    逢はむ→あわん awamu - awan(m)
       
    ~せむ→~せん semu - sen(m)

       
    ありけむ→ありけん arikemu - ariken(m)

       
    取りてむ→とりてん toritemu - toriten(m)
       
    給ひなむ→たまいなん tamainamu - tamainan(m)

       
    吹かむとす→ふかんとす fukamutosu - fukan(m)tosu
       

    まかりなむずる→まかりなんずる makarinamuzuru - makarina
    n(m)zuru

    By the way since we are on the topic of Daimoku
    pronunciation the Japanese pronunciation of Renge is in between R and L but closer to L. We can say Lenge instead of Renge. It is as the Japanese do when they touch the palate with the tongue when they pronounce La Li Lu Le Lo not Ra Ri Ru RE Ro this is a mistake as is Namu Myoho Renge Kyo which should be Nam Myoho Lenge Kyo from what I have so far been able to ascertain from a non bias standpoint with information presented.

    It is easier to pronounce Lenge than Renge as it rolls off the tongue and is easier to pronounce Nam Myoho Lenge Kyo than it is to pronounce Namu Myoho Renge Kyo. Why labour under unnecessary burden if it isn't necessary, isn't life already tough enough

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    1. "Now we are reading those spellings with modern pronunciation." - noel

      You maybe, SGI maybe, Nichiren Shoshu maybe but not me and millions of others who read these spellings with ancient pronunciation as did Nichiren.

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    3. As long as we are sure the other sect or person is not slandering the Sutra like SGI, NST, Nchiren Shu, Honmon Butsuryu Shu, and Kempon Hokke for example.

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    4. Agree, however we have to be ever vigilant towards ourselves and other independents that we are not doing the same as those that we consider to be out of line with Nichiren's authentic teachings

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    5. Noel, can you provide a Gosho reference from Nichren's authenticated writings the supports your focus on the *sound* of the daimoku that Nichiren wrote i using 7 distinct characters?

      You say :
      "we can now have unity amoungst the other sects with chanting"

      Where does Nichiren say that harmonizing with *sound* as the standard, is the means for creating unity?

      Yes, I , too, "Agree, however we have to be ever vigilant towards ourselves and other independents that we are not doing the same as those that we consider to be out of line with Nichiren's authentic teachings"

      And that always starts with Nichiren's writings--


      I disagree with this:

      "It really doesn't matter Mark if we chant Nam/u Myoho Renge Kyo at the same time with 6 beats because it sounds the same and if we stretch it out to 7 beats"

      It isn't the sound, it is the focus-- the focus of one's mind on the daimoku, as Nichiren wrote it, Noel. Can you prove otherwise using Nichirens writings as your standard?

      ~Katie

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    9. "Noel, can you provide a Gosho reference from Nichren's authenticated writings the supports your focus on the *sound* of the daimoku that Nichiren wrote i using 7 distinct characters?"


      Its common sense or should be common sense Katie that sound comes with the pronunciation of mantra and unnecessary to explain even though many couldn't read and write in Nichiren's day. Oral transmission of Namu Myoho Renge Kyo spread through word of mouth

      The Priests and the more educated in Japanese society knew how to read and write Kanji Symbols where the less educated could mostly read only Hiragana which is the Japanese alphabet.

      Nichiren out of the infinite compassion of his heart wrote more in hiragana than Kanji for the common people since their ability to understand Kanji was limited


      Where does Nichiren say that harmonizing with *sound* as the standard, is the means for creating unity?"


      I was speaking to Mark who understands as he has given reasons what needs to happen for other sects to unite and Chanting with one voice is one of them


      "It isn't the sound, it is the focus-- the focus of one's mind on the daimoku, as Nichiren wrote it, Noel. Can you prove otherwise using Nichirens writings as your standard?"


      We have been dealing about the character Mu here that's why the emphasis has been stressed on it. It goes without saying that the most important aspect of the mantra is what it is that our mind is focused on Myoho Renge Kyo

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    1. Interesting but flawed logic. No matter how fast you chant Namu, were one to actually hear and record it as "Namu", it could never be fast enough to harmonize with Nam. Twenty years chanting Nam and twenty years chanting Namu leads me strongly to believe this.

      According to Nichiren, words are the expression of the voice of the Buddha. Since Nichiren never once wrote "Nam" Myoho renge kyo, not in more than fifty years and he always wrote Namu Myoho renge kyo, how can Nam Myoho renge kyo be the expression of the Buddha's words, "Namu myo renge kyo"?

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    5. "According to Nichiren, words are the expression of the voice of the Buddha. Since Nichiren never once wrote "Nam" Myoho renge kyo, not in more than fifty years and he always wrote Namu Myoho renge kyo, how can Nam Myoho renge kyo be the expression of the Buddha's words, "Namu myo renge kyo"?

      What Nichiren wrote and how he pronounced it is a different matter. The Japanese language is complicated

      Historical kana usage: How to read Spellings in Historical kana usage have been unchanged all the time in spite of changes of pronunciation.

      Now we are reading those spellings with modern pronunciation.

      ●In case of Ancient writings, the next rule is added.

      ●In case of Ancient writings, the next rule is added.

       む (mu) of an auxiliary verb is to be read with
      ん N or M depending on what sound comes after
       
      E.g. Na m Myoho lips are together when we pronounce M 
      Ko n ni chi wa lips open when we pronounce N

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    7. Mark; "We just can never harmoniously chant together if you chant Nam Myoho renge kyo and I chant Namu Myoho renge kyo. Do you think that's what Nichiren desired?"

      Yes we can harmoniously chant together if you chant Namu Myoho renge kyo and I chant Nam Myoho renge kyo correctly like native Japanese speakers do but can never harmoniously chant together if you start Mooing

      Nichiren's concern was that we Chant 7 characters or the 5 characters. You, Shu and Kempon Hokke are the ones who Have been making the big deal over MOO.

      You just want to be different from NST so by emphasising MU you make moo your trademark

      Noel; Chant Namu or Nam in one beat chant Na-mu with 2 beats. If I chanted Nam Myoho Lenge Kyo and you chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo continuously in unison at the same time there will be discord
      because English speakers do not know how to chant Namu the correct way as native Japanese speakers do

      I believe Nichiren chanted the 7 characters in a 6 beat format and the 7 characters in the 7 beats formats ( As Nichiren Shoshu do) at different times is more of a likelihood rather than just one or the other.

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  4. I have developed a different take on *harmonious voices* chanting in the same rhythm, etc. I start with the premise that Nichiren did not teach *unity via harmonious voices chanting in the same rhythm*, but unity based on the *mind of faith in the one vehicle, Myoho-renge-kyo* from there I got to this: (pasted from a comment I posted on ARBN)

    >>"WHY would the *eternal mentors of SGIkeda* propagate the notion that the *voices* chanting in harmony creates and/or fosters unity amongst *members*-- ? I definitely do not consider all members of "SGI Buddha" to be *believers*-- and I have rarely seen any SGI activity flow in harmonious unity. WHY then do they still harp on their freaking voices to the exclusion of-- or possibly with the intent of discounting their common mortal deluded minds?

    It has not escaped my notice that this sort of resonating is a common means for establishing *group think*-- it has roots in earliest recorded history of many cultures-- drumming, dancing, singing-- AND Don't forget "Lord of the Flies". The resonating rituals were designed to fulfill a purpose designed by a *leader*. Case .. almost closed.

    Nichiren would not, I strongly contend, have omitted a teaching on the profound purpose for chanting in harmony with a designated leader. A teaching, which has monumental impact, and is so vital to KR could not have been discounted by Nichiren. And if such a teaching were to be found in the Lotus Sutra, how could Nichiren have missed it? I think not.

    "The Chanting Millions" is the title of the BBC documentary that opens with the line, "The Sokka Gakkai, a Japanese Buddhist cult..." I'm thinking a more appropriate title for that wonderful documentary would be :"The millions chanting in harmony with a designated leader" ... <<

    I conclude that the correct pronunciation and emphasis on each of the seven characters of the daimoku, as Written by Nichiren is key to developing one's *mind of faith*-- This who are of the *same mind as Nichiren* will naturally unite and fulfill the Buddhais will- for the widespread propagation of the Lotus Sutra...

    Be it ever so *different* it is still just mu humble opinion-- BUT-- unless someone can point me to a teaching in Nichiren's own hand that supports *harmonizing vocally* as the means for creating unity-I will stick with this.

    Best,
    ~Katie

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    3. The chanting white guy with the beard may be Mark when he was trying out Nichiren Shu before he left for Kempon Hokke

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    4. You present a compelling argument against focusing on the voices of others *chanting* daimoku at the expense of focus on developing one's own mind of faith in Myoho-renge-kyo by pronouncing each of the 7 characters, Nichiren WROTE:
      "Na-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo"

      Perhaps the reason
      Nichiren did NOT teach harmonizing voices- or chanting the *same rhythm* together with him or any *designated* leader of daimoku, because it is NOT important?

      I realize there are many who lament that there is NO way to ascertain exactly how Nichiren's daimoku sounded. And then others come along, and insist practitioners need to harmonize based on their own self-interpreted rhythm. WHY?

      Do you think Nichiren was remiss regarding this matter?--; that chanting in harmony with others a goal or a key part of the practice for developing *unity* and Nichiren, while writing extensib=vely about unity in the *one mind of faith* simply forgot to include the *vital* aspect of chanting in harmony to create* unity*?

      Nichiren was no less adept in writing to convey exact meaning than Noel, when he expresses the various ways one can employ inflection and emphasis on each character of the daimoku that Nichiren only wrote down.

      Again today I will do my best to chant every one of the seven characters of the daimoku, devoting my life to faith in the Lotus Sutra to develop the *mind of faith* that Nichiren taught. Isn't this the individual practice that leads to true and lasting *unity* amongst Nichiren's followers? Or did I miss something?

      ~Katie

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    5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtazdZrQ9_g

      This chanted has 6.5 beats see how dysfunctional it sounds. Its like they are going over a speed bump

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  5. The Chinese character for Mu means nothing

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    1. Namu makes up part of the name of the Law. It is like Kelli and Kelly. Kelli Smith is not the same name nor the same person as Kelly Smith. Nam Myoho renge kyo is the name of the counterfeit SGI an Nichiren Shoshu Law and the name of the counterfeit Law to those too attached to it. The very bottom line Noel, Nichiren never wrote Nam, not once. He always wrote Namu. If you, like Nichiren always write and say Namu Myoho renge kyo, there will be no confusion. SGI and NST have been sowing confusion fr many years. Sorry that you are on their side in this matter.

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    3. Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas.


      The 2 Chinese characters 南 Na (south) and 無 mu (nothing) are used to express devotion


      The 2 Kanji characters 南無 were the most suitable to create the sound of the prefixed Indian word Namas. Namu (南無) is a transliteration into Japanese of the Sanskrit Namas that means to dedicate one's life


      Namu Myoho Renge Kyo is chanted with 6 beats, 南無 (Namu) gets one beat. Namu a is a phonetic rendering of the Sanskrit Namas written with kanji


      Simple Definition of phonetic

      •: of or relating to spoken language, speech sounds, or the science of phonetics

      •: representing each speech sound with a single symbol

      •: using a system of written symbols that represent speech sounds in a way that is very close to how they actually sound

      Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not for their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas.


      This isn't my personal opinion, its coming from Japanese language scholars

      Historical kana usage: How to read Spellings in Historical kana usage have been unchanged all the time in spite of changes of pronunciation.


      Now we are reading those spellings with modern pronunciation.

      ●In case of Ancient writings, the next rule is added.

      む (mu) of an auxiliary verb is to be read with
      ん N or M depending on what sound comes after
       
      E.g. Na m Myoho lips are together when we pronounce m

      If 2 participants chant Namu... Myo... ho... Ren... ge... Kyo and the other Nam... Myo... ho... Ren... ge... Kyo at the same time with 6 beats, it doesn't sound the same

      Now stretch it out to 7 beats, both will now be chanting a clearly defined Na... mu... Myo... ho.. Ren... ge... Kyo.

      This feels right

      Chant Namu...Myo..ho... Ren..ge... Kyo using 6 beats. Now chant Nam.. Myo...ho ...Ren..ge.. Kyo at the same time with 6 beats.

      I personally feel more at ease with the latter

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  6. Wow - you are saying that the character , " mu" one of the characters Nichiren included on all of his Gohonzons and in his own writings , means " nothing "??


    To you, perhaps --Maybe this is another of your epiphanies ?? Maybe qualify your statement as the "opinion " of someone who interprets Nichiren's writings in a manner that supports his seeking " psychedelic drug experiences " as proof of the power of the Gohonzon ??

    ~Katie

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  7. "When we worship gods or Buddhas, we begin with the phrase of "namu." Namu is an Indian word that has come to mean "offering of life to the Buddhas and gods""
    Jiri Kuyo Gosho (NOPPA Volume 4 - page 98)

    Hmm...Nam...maybe that means offering half one's life? Or maybe three quarters if it? It would explain a lot...

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    1. Why don't you guys the 3 amigos (including Mark) stop acting like you know it all and look at the character for Mu and then come back to me with an informed comment. So far your ineptness to investigate has explained a lot about your fat ego's and your reluctance to find out what's really going on

      Namaste

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    2. On the "three amigos and fat egos" comment, was that needed? 😔

      I don't think anyone's trying to be right, I do think we're all trying to do it right! :) Hopefully we can help each other?

      I wasn't trying to get at you Noel with my first comment, I was playfully expressing what I took longer over in my second comment - namely profound reverence. It's easy to descend into bickering and dispute and start getting personal, let's not do that eh? We're all better than that, you most certainly included.😃

      Have a good day!

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    5. Thanks MB I appreciate it. So many times this issue (Dropping the character Mu) keeps coming up in the blog.

      I am personally more interested in what it is to what we are devoted to rather the pronunciation of the word that we use to express devotion of the Law of NMRK but since it keeps being brought to my attention I share my understanding from a different perspective that may not have come up before which is all about promoting healthy debate


      If we understand, tried to understand, or become one with the Law, would it matter if we say Nam or Namu Myoho Renge Kyo , Dropping or not dropping the pronunciation of the character Mu or even use both like the NST or old school SGI

      Its all about the sincerity of heart that really counts. How could one be denied access to the Law if they didn't add Mu or drop it. I believe that the Law is bigger than that but if it wasn't I would have nothing to do with if it was as trivial as that


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0I8e5Bw6Uk

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhN3Y8aSJyI

      Try chanting Namu Myoho Renge Kyo to the chanting of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo on these links and see if there is any difference


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HF22rzF2zk

      Now try chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo to the chanting of Namu Myoho Renge Kyo on these links and see if there is any difference


      Nam/u Myoho Renge Kyo is chanted with 6 beats, 南無 (Namu) gets one beat. Nam/u a is a phonetic rendering of the Sanskrit Namah written with kanji, pronounced using the 音 (On) reading.


      む (mu) of an auxiliary verb is to be read with
      ん N or M depending on what sound comes after
       
      E.g. Na m Myoho lips are together when we pronounce M 
      Ko n ni chi wa lips open when we pronounce N

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  8. "The Chinese character for Mu means nothing"

    It is one of seven characters Nichiren refers to as *the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra"

    To me, that *means* I will pronounce this character when I chant the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra.

    It's pretty obvious to me that *what's really going on" is you have not yet decided to practice Nichiren's Lotus Sutra Buddhism -- otherwise, it would be obvious to you, that pronouncing ALL seven characters is simply saying aloud what Nichiren wrote.

    Nichiren wrote :"Nam-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo ", but Noel thinks he meant to leave out the character, "mu" that Noel says, "means nothing"-- or since Noel says the characte "mu" itself "means nothing", overlook the fact that Nichiren wrote it on all gohonzons and in all of his own writings.

    The only *ego* I see operating in this discussion is your, Noel. Maybe you should investigate that yourself?

    ~Katie







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    1. common

      ムMU ブBU な.いna.i

      nothingness;  none;  ain't;  nothing;  nil;  not

      Radical: 火 (fire). Strokes: 12画. Elements: |ノ一灬. Pinyin: wú / mó. Hangul: 무 [mu].

      Jōyō Kanji 4th Grade.


      Example compounds:
      ム 無私【むし】selflessness; unselfish
      無競争【むきょうそう】lacking opposition or competition
      無政府主義【むせいふしゅぎ】(doctrine of) anarchism

      ブ 無勢【ぶぜい】outnumbered; overwhelmed
      無愛想【ぶあいそう】unsociability; bluntness
      無作法【ぶさほう】ill-mannered; rude

      ない 素っ気無い【そっけない】cold; short; curt; blunt
      取り止めの無い【とりとめのない】incoherent; wandering; vague; rambling; whimsical
      申し分の無い【もうしぶんのない】no objection; nothing to criticize (criticise)

      ▸ Codes and indices

      ▸ Find words containing 無 / beginning with 無 / ending with 無 / 無_ / _無

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    2. https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=chinese+character+for+south&view=detailv2&&id=B3E06C486D28C558D56CE8D4B22A913AEDE8D363&selectedIndex=1&ccid=cJQaIpMM&simid=608006540905088275&thid=OIP.M70941a22930cf42dc1e11faf4127f573H0&ajaxhist=0

      The character for Na means South



      https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=chinese+character+for+nothing&view=detailv2&&id=003AA225BBBBCBCE0132DCE9D44502AD9921A188&selectedIndex=2&ccid=ZK8%2fiH1A&simid=608041072436972688&thid=OIP.M64af3f887d406e5730edaeffb5ff6c88o0&ajaxhist=0

      The character for Mu Chinese Symbol for Zen


      If I took the Chinese symbols literally, living in the southern hemisphere would be like living South of nowhere



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  9. The word, "incorrigible" comes to mind.....

    ~Katie

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  10. I'm not following the relevance of what you are saying Noel.

    "無
    common

    ムMU ブBU な.いna.i

    nothingness;  none;  ain't;  nothing;  nil;  not"

    So what? Are you implying that because it means "nothingness;  none;  ain't;  nothing;  nil;  no" you can leave it out?

    I think your missing the word "phrase" in the gosho quote "we begin with the phrase of "namu." Na - Mu.

    So look at your examples:

    selflessness; unselfish; ill-mannered; rude; incoherent; wandering; vague; rambling; whimsical. etc.

    Is it not obvious that the character plays a part in conveying a wide range of meanings?

    Now according to Nichiren, in Namu, Mu has the function, when combined with Na of "offering of life to the Buddhas and gods". That is the meaning it conveys. Na-Mu offering of life to the Buddhas and gods.

    When placed in front of Myoho Renge-kyo, it means "offering of life to Myoho Renge-kyo."

    It's a profound act of reverence Noel, it's the very means by which one embraces and upholds the Sutra, it's a act of faith, of devotion (devotion comes from the same root as "to vow"). I can't understand why you can't see that that's important or would want to play around with that part of the Daimoku.

    If you were practicing when SGI was still with NST, you would already have chanted Namu Myoho Renge-kyo at certain points during gongyo (long Daimoku), so really what's the problem?

    Until the late 40's NST was a small, fairly isolated sect in the backwoods. It is the only sect that abbreviated the Daimoku in this way. Every other Nichiren school chanted Namu.

    I was ignorant about the significance for many years and so chanted Nam too but I did so with sincerity. But now I know, can I justify carrying on with a truncated Daimoku? No of course I can't and my life won't let me. Nam is just plain wrong and now I understand the significance fully, I wonder why a small sect that claimed it was Orthodox. thought it would be OK to abbreviate it, most likely for ease and teach others to do that. Or was it another way of marking themselves out as being different, like the Dai Gohonzon? Who knows.

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    1. Excellent points, Mudpie-- and an interesting question to ponder at the end of your comment. "Who knows?" why the character *mu* was dropped?

      It was you who provided really helpful coaching for me when I first began to chant Namu-myoho-renge- kyo-. on this site just this past April. My very first experience was profound - starting with the sense of grounding I felt that seemed to be connected to focusing on the new slower rhythm, then I noted that focusing my mind on the Lotus sutra, the Gohonzon, Shakyamuni came more naturally and this is what has persisted to the point of my daring to answer why the daimoku was abbreviated by NST in the first place.

      Haven't gotten any feedback yet on my theory about *group chanting" in harmony with a designated leader, but here is another opportunity to add to that theory. I think the abbreviated daimoku or truncated version as Mark has called it, makes the chanter more impressionable to the various guidances of the SGI regarding *focus* when one chants and leaves them open for what would have to be called *mindless* chanting, in that the suggestions have nothing to do with Shakyamuni, the Lotus Sutra-- and by extension nothing to do with the Gohinzon itself.

      You have to be mindful and listen to your own voice, too., -when chanting Namu, as opposed to Nam--. Less likely to chant a galloping rhythm and more likely to give every character some attention, chanting *na-mu*. It works great to use your analogy, Mudpie, a triplet in music , "Na-mu-myo-" and still maintain a very focused rhythm ==instead of that awful buzzing sound that happens in groups chanting *nam*? No rhythm to it at all-- like the Worst Gosho lecture ever-- video-- Ay-yi-yi ?!?!

      So, I think dropping the mu was the gateway [drug] to all sorts of distorted thinking and disordered thoughts that render members impressionable targets--- and early practitioners of this altered daimoku more flexible in their thinking, too-- and led to cunning manipulation of the very core of Nichiren's teachings by Taisekiji priests. They were commandeered, so to speak-- perhaps this was the opening of the portal through which the demons flocked to possess the minds and bodies of the forerunners of SGI's own spin off into something that doesn't even resemble Buddhism.

      If only--- *mu* had been recognized as both correct and vital for chanting the daimolku by which one seeks the Buddha himself--

      The daimoku is the essential teaching and practice for the Latter Day. It is best not to play around with it, as you say, Mudpie.

      ~Katie

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    2. "I think your missing the word "phrase" in the gosho quote "we begin with the phrase of "namu." Na - Mu.

      So look at your examples:

      selflessness; unselfish; ill-mannered; rude; incoherent; wandering; vague; rambling; whimsical. etc.

      Is it not obvious that the character plays a part in conveying a wide range of meanings?"


      Yes it Does when it is combined with other characters. This wasn't what I was referring to when you quoted "selflessness; unselfish; ill-mannered; rude; incoherent; wandering; vague; rambling; whimsical. etc. as my examples


      Nichiren chose these symbols for their sound not their meaning



      common

      ムMU ブBU な.いna.i

      nothingness;  none;  ain't;  nothing;  nil;  not


      The Chinese word wú 無 "not; nothing" was borrowed by East Asian languages, particularly the Sino-Xenic "CJKV" languages of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese.

      The Japanese and Korean term mu (Japanese: 無; Korean: 무) or Chinese wú (traditional Chinese: 無; simplified Chinese: 无) meaning "not have; without" is a key word in Buddhism, especially Zen traditions.

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    3. One should not under estimate NST so easily

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    5. ~Katie "Wow - you are saying that the character , " mu" one of the characters Nichiren included on all of his Gohonzons and in his own writings , means " nothing "??

      (the dictionary says it, don't shoot the messenger Katie)

      To you, perhaps --Maybe this is another of your epiphanies ?? Maybe qualify your statement as the "opinion " of someone who interprets Nichiren's writings in a manner that supports his seeking " psychedelic drug experiences " as proof of the power of the Gohonzon ??


      MB "It's easy to descend into bickering and dispute and start getting personal, let's not do that eh? We're all better than that" or supposed to be Katie ,

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    6. Strong enemies can never be underestmated.

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    7. Noel, where did you find this?

      "Nichiren chose these symbols for their sound not their meaning"

      Here is a segment of a letter- date and recipient unknown, "On Namu"- in WND vol 2 p. 1073. It is so brief I will share all of what is printed in this Gakkai publication.

      "I do not build Buddhist halls or pagodas. I do not carry out almsgiving. The only thing I hold precious is my life, and this I have offered to the Lotus Sutra.

      The Buddhas of the three existences of past, present, and future, when they were still ordinary mortals, all offered their lives to the Lotus Sutra and thus were able to become Buddhas.

      For this reason, the names of all the various Buddhas are prefixed by the word *namu*. *Namu* is a word of the language of India, and in this country it means "to dedicate one's life." Explaining the term "to dedicate ones' life," T'ien-t'ai says it means to "single-mindedly dedicate one's life." By offering their lives to the Lotus Sutra, they became Buddhas. And now, I, Nichiren, offering my life to the Lotus Sutra..."[end of the extant letter]

      I believe the emphasis is on the meaning, not the sound of the symbols/characters Niciren employed writing the daimoku in 7 characters.

      Again, I will point out that one must be mindful when chanting the 7 characters, "single-mindedly" -- and this, I believe is a purposeful , crucial matter to keep in mind. " Dedicating one's life to Myoho-renge-kyo ",is the essential practice-- and mindfulness not mindlessness reflects proper reverence for what is essential to attaining Buddhahood.

      Noel:"One should not under estimate NST so easily"

      Absolutely ! -- their [NST] nefarious tampering with and fabricating teachings has a profound negative influence that is incalculable for sure.

      I find it even more important to examine what NST & SGI have changed and study harder to determine and expose their motive.

      ~Katie

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    8. "Nichiren chose these symbols for their sound not their meaning"


      "Noel, where did you find this?"


      I heard this voice inside my head say " Nichiren chose these symbols for their sound not their meaning" as I was pondering the reason why would the 2 Chinese characters 南無 for Na mu that mean south and nothing respectively be used to express devotion

      "For this reason, the names of all the various Buddhas are prefixed by the word *namu*. *Namu* is a word of the language of India, and in this country it means "to dedicate one's life."


      The 2 Kanji characters 南無 were the most suitable to create the sound of the prefixed Indian word Namas. Namu (南無) is a transliteration into Japanese of the Sanskrit "namas that means to dedicate one's life which encompasses such synonyms for devotion as loyalty · faithfulness · fidelity · trueness · staunchness ·
      steadfastness · constancy · commitment · adherence · allegiance · dedication · devoutness · fondness · love · admiration · affection · attentiveness · care · caring · warmness · closeness

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    10. Noel:"One should not under estimate NST so easily"

      "Absolutely ! -- their [NST] *nefarious* tampering with and fabricating teachings has a profound negative influence that is incalculable for sure."

      We also have to be careful, as we can also unknowingly be misrepresenting the teachings however the karmic retribution for intentionally tampering with and fabricating teachings for gain has a much more profound negative influence that drives us along on the highway to Avichi Hell.

      The use of the word nefarious is quite a description to describe those who mess with the Lotus Sutra that is the primary source of Nichirens teachings as being wicked · evil · iniquitous · sinful · vile · foul · monstrous · shocking · outrageous · atrocious · abominable · reprehensible · hateful · detestable · despicable · odious · contemptible · horrible · heinous · execrable · diabolical · diabolic · fiendish · vicious · murderous · barbarous · black · dark · rotten · criminal · illicit · unlawful · illegal · illegitimate · lawless · felonious · indictable · transgressing · wrong · immoral · corrupt · degenerate · reprobate · sordid · depraved · dissolute · bad · base · dishonourable · dishonest · unscrupulous · unprincipled · underhand · roguish · crooked · bent · warped · low-down · stinking · dirty · shady · rascally · scoundrelly · beastly · not cricket · malfeasant · dastardly · egregious · flagitious just to mention few.

      Then again Nichiren didn't mince his words when it came to reprimanding those who would violate · profane · treat sacrilegiously · treat with disrespect · pollute · contaminate · infect · befoul · defile · debase · degrade · dishonour · blaspheme against · vandalize · damage · destroy · deface the Lotus Sutra

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    11. Noel, this won't pass the litmus test {Nichiren's writings and The Lotus Sutra] for your claims :

      "I heard this voice inside my head say " Nichiren chose these symbols for their sound not their meaning" as I was pondering the reason why would the 2 Chinese characters 南無 for Na mu that mean south and nothing respectively be used to express devotion "

      Pondering Nichiren's writings while meditating ,Noel? that is going to put you into Zen territory--. Transmission *outside* of the sutras, I think is a good working definition of what you offer pretty consistently here.

      Focusing one's mind on the 7 characters one is chanting is more like a *bodily reading of the Gosho*-- the results are way different than the ones you are talking about from your *meditation/mind-revelation" practice*.

      Your disbelief in the literal translation of the daimoku- seven characters, Noel is beyond the pale.

      But since you hang on to make an argument where there is none, at least you show yourself to be practicing your own version of something that I don't think even resembles Nichiren's Buddhism.

      That is my opinion-- and I have backed it up sufficiently here and on two other lengthy threads on this site-- So, I am not going to mince words - your behavior here exemplifies incorrigible disbelief-- that's slander, Noel-definitely not something I will ignore.

      ~Katie

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    12. "Pondering Nichiren's writings while meditating ,Noel? that is going to put you into Zen territory--. Transmission *outside* of the sutras, I think is a good working definition of what you offer pretty consistently here."

      Ha ha your so funeeee, when did ever having a thought become an act of Zen. You are really over the top about meditation, have you ever Googled the meaning of it, or do you enjoy going on your witch hunts too much. You remind me inquisitors burning those who practiced folk law at the stake for making herbal remedies, you really need to lighten up instead of lighting fires like a pyromaniac with your false accusations

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    13. "Focusing one's mind on the 7 characters one is chanting is more like a *bodily reading of the Gosho*-- the results are way different than the ones you are talking about from your *meditation/mind-revelation" practice*."

      Well I haven't seen much proof of you bodily manifestation of wisdom from the Law of Myoho Renge Kyo from your analysis of what I've been saying but rather the flaunting of a full blown manifestation of your infantile imbecilic nature

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    14. "I heard this voice inside my head say " Nichiren chose these symbols for their sound not their meaning" as I was pondering the reason why would the 2 Chinese characters 南無 for Na mu that mean south and nothing respectively be used to express devotion "

      The voice inside my head is my thought process coming to a conclusion of the reason why Nichiren used these symbols that aren't related to meaning of the symbols but the sound the Indian word Namas. But your not smart enough to figure that out are you but would rather make such statements "Noel, this won't pass the litmus test {Nichiren's writings and The Lotus Sutra] for your claims" when you don't even what you are talking about


      "Your disbelief in the literal translation of the daimoku- seven characters, Noel is beyond the pale."

      You are thicker than a brick and your mind is set in quick sand. There is no way to get through that impenetrable wall of stupidity that has imprisoned you, it must be your Karma.

      Please don't stop chanting its your only hope, if this is what you are like now and you have improved you must of been pretty messed up before you started Buddhist practice. You'd have to be the Donald Trump of Nichiren Buddhism


      The 2 Kanji characters 南無 were the most suitable to create the sound of the prefixed Indian word Namas. Namu (南無) is a transliteration into Japanese of the Sanskrit "namas that means to dedicate one's life which encompasses such synonyms for devotion as loyalty · faithfulness · fidelity · trueness · staunchness ·
      steadfastness · constancy · commitment · adherence · allegiance · dedication · devoutness · fondness · love · admiration · affection · attentiveness · care · caring · warmness · closeness

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  11. The charcter Mu is prononced moo Noel.


    You forget that Namu is not just used by Nichiren Buddhists. It is appended to other dieties and sutras. It's commonly pronounced Namu. Nah Moo.

    As for closed lips on the m, well you try saying moo without closing yoir lips on the m! Just like you try saying nah without your lips open. See the problem? The lips have to be closed to say moo - even cows do it, and they're the real experts! ;)

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    1. Thanks, Mudpie, your detailed tutorial on the pronunciation of "Namu" took me back to the original point most "Nam" chanters make; chanting "Nom" is easier than chanting "Nah-Moo"--By easier, they are actually referring to not having to focus one's mind on the pronunciation-- of the *essential" practice.

      Hmmmm- IF one pronounces each character-- all seven as Nichiren WROTE them, they will have to be *mindful*--Mindful of what? The essential teaching that they are practicing ! Right?

      And if one decides to choose what is *easier* to pronounce and easier to chant -- even though it is NOT what Nichiren wrote-- one can focus on --other things, like the guidance of SGI Pres. Ikea and more directly on uniting with him?? Or any number of erroneous teachings and concepts-- goals and agendas etc.

      So, again, I remind anyone reading here that Nichiren did *not* exert himself in teaching us what our daimoku should sound like; he did *not* exert himself in teaching that chanting in harmony with one another creates unity. BUT, he did WRITE the 7 characters--- and just as each character of the Lotus Sutra is a Golden Buddha-- so might we realize that there is something very profound about what Nichiren WROTE down for us to chant.

      I can share from personal experience that chanting the seven characters and saying "Nah-moo" does cause me to focus my mind fully on the daimoku and concentrate as I listen to myself, making sure I hear that I am saying each character. From the moment I open my mouth I am *mindful* of what I am doing.

      I would also like to add that I have noticed more clarity when I study; greater ease locating and reading just what I am looking for--- and an emerging awareness of uniting from the *one mind of faith* with other likeminded followers of Nichiren-- I refer to those who strictly adhere to Nichiren's actual teachings-- whether or not they *get it* on the first reading. -- All these benefits appeared in connection with my first experience chanting Nah-Moo-- instead of Nom. And my initial struggle is a golden memory now :-)

      I will chant mindful of pronouncing each of the seven characters Nichiren wrote down; employing the triplet phrasing suggested by Mudpie--- until the cows come home !!

      ~Katie

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  12. The Japanese pronounce their vowels A,I,U,E,O in the same way that we learnt to say A,E,I,O,U when we first started to learn how to spell

    Nam/u Myoho Renge Kyo is chanted with 6 beats, 南無 (Namu) gets one beat. Nam/u a is a phonetic rendering of the Sanskrit Namah written with kanji


    This isn't my personal opinion, its coming from Japanese sound pronunciation experts


    Historical kana usage: How to read Spellings in Historical kana usage have been unchanged all the time in spite of changes of pronunciation.

    Now we are reading those spellings with modern pronunciation.

    ●In case of Ancient writings, the next rule is added.

     む (mu) of an auxiliary verb is to be read with
    ん N or M depending on what sound comes after
     
    E.g. Na m Myoho lips are together when we pronounce m 

     

    逢はむ→あわん awamu - awan(m)
       
    ~せむ→~せん semu - sen(m)

       
    ありけむ→ありけん arikemu - ariken(m)

       
    取りてむ→とりてん toritemu - toriten(m)
       
    給ひなむ→たまいなん tamainamu - tamainan(m)

       
    吹かむとす→ふかんとす fukamutosu - fukan(m)tosu
       

    まかりなむずる→まかりなんずる makarinamuzuru - makarina
    n(m)zuru


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtazdZrQ9_g

    Is this how U/moo, Mark and Katie would sound like if you chanted together?

    It sounds like they are saying Nam-m- Myoho Renge Kyo which is more like a Mantra with a stutter

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  13. Oooooh, yuck! don't like the sound of the chanting on that youtube video, Noel--it is definitely not rhythmic.

    The triplet phrasing world for me-- Nah/moo/myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo--
    Which I like because I listen closely and keep an even beat rhythm-- It Feels and sounds strong - I feel *grounded* and alert chanting this way.

    ~Katie



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  14. Yuck double yuck. But still better than SGI's whirling slur.

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    2. Nichiren Shu change the flow of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo into a mumble that's like a stumble when they say Namu Myoho Renge Kyo with 6 beats

      Their is a silent U in Namu Myoho Renge Kyo when it is pronounced with one beat as NST, SGI and some Independents do

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    2. Namu-myoho-renge-kyo is the one essential phrase of the Lotus Sutra, according to Nichiren. Nichiren chose it and propagated it as the daimoku, the essential practice of the Lotus sutra for this latter age.

      How one approaches this teaching and conducts his/her practice of chanting it, speaks volumes regarding arousing even one moment of faith in Myoho-Renge-Kyo.

      Noel's teaching above , or his *tutorial*, if you will, on the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra , is a a display Noel is making of the mental operations he has employed that add and subtract, to and from, respectively, Nichiren's own teaching.

      Employing his mental prowess in this way and suggesting others join him in a pronunciation exercise is disrespectful, imo-- , but moreover it is a matter that gives me serious pause....

      It could well be that ALL divergence from Nichiren's teachings begin and end with misinterpretations of the one essential phrase-- from disregarding how Nichiren wrote it, to assuming one's own voice should be harmonized with by others.

      The power of the Wonderful Law, Myoho-Renge-Kyo itself, is never in doubt, the way it is employed and propagated is another story--- many, many other stories...

      I encourage a thoughtful reflection on whose teaching this is--

      Metaphorically speaking, Nichiren didn't *stutter*, nor did he hold back anything that is vital to his teaching for the attainment of Buddhahood in the latter day of the Law. Those who think otherwise, are fools---

      Best,
      ~Katie

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    3. Katie is pontificating again as usual in the name of Nichiren

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    4. Nichiren speaks for himself, Noel.

      ~Katie

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  16. Here is a segment of a letter- date and recipient unknown, "On Namu"- in WND vol 2 p. 1073. It is so brief I will share all of what is printed in this Gakkai publication.

    "I do not build Buddhist halls or pagodas. I do not carry out almsgiving. The only thing I hold precious is my life, and this I have offered to the Lotus Sutra.

    The Buddhas of the three existences of past, present, and future, when they were still ordinary mortals, all offered their lives to the Lotus Sutra and thus were able to become Buddhas.

    For this reason, the names of all the various Buddhas are prefixed by the word *namu*. *Namu* is a word of the language of India, and in this country it means "to dedicate one's life." Explaining the term "to dedicate ones' life," T'ien-t'ai says it means to "single-mindedly dedicate one's life." By offering their lives to the Lotus Sutra, they became Buddhas. And now, I, Nichiren, offering my life to the Lotus Sutra..."[end of the extant letter]


    Noel, has not produced a single passage from Nichiren's writings to support his *pontificating*.

    Noel, disregards what Nichiren actually said and adds his own ideas.

    Noel slanders Nichiren and berates me whenever I share Nichiren's own teachings, his own words.

    Na-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo = 7 characters. Nichiren did NOT say to *disregard* a single character.
    In the Gosho: "Rebuking Slander of The Law", nichiren writes:

    "The Great Teacher Chang-an says, "One who destroys or brings confusion to the Buddha's teachings is betraying them. If one befriends another person but lacks the mercy to correct him, one is in fact his enemy."

    Noel corrects me and others on this thread from *his own mind revelations*. Noel disregards the *good friends* who correct him for adding his own spin on the one essential phrase and the essential teachings for practicing the Lotus sutra in this latter age, taught by Nichiren.

    Does noel think he knows better than Nichiren?

    Does Noel think he can convince a true follower of Nichiren, that he, Noel is wiser than Nichiren?

    Why would Noel continue to propagate his own "mind revelations" amongst true followers of Nichiren?



    The *one essential phrase* has been the topic of Noel's pontifications on this thread...

    Mudpie says :" It's a profound act of reverence Noel, it's the very means by which one embraces and upholds the Sutra, it's a act of faith, of devotion (devotion comes from the same root as "to vow"). I can't understand why you can't see that that's important or would want to play around with that part of the Daimoku."

    The term, "incorrigible disbelief" appears to fit Noel's behavior.

    Be aware!

    ~Katie


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    2. Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas.

      Why cant you understand this Katie ???

      The 2 Chinese characters 南 Na (south) and 無 mu (nothing) are used to express devotion "

      The 2 Kanji characters 南無 were the most suitable to create the sound of the prefixed Indian word Namas. Namu (南無) is a transliteration into Japanese of the Sanskrit "namas that means to dedicate one's life

      Namu Myoho Renge Kyo is chanted with 6 beats, 南無 (Namu) gets one beat. Namu a is a phonetic rendering of the Sanskrit Namas written with kanji

      Simple Definition of phonetic

      •: of or relating to spoken language, speech sounds, or the science of phonetics

      •: representing each speech sound with a single symbol

      •: using a system of written symbols that represent speech sounds in a way that is very close to how they actually sound

      This isn't my personal opinion, its coming from Japanese language scholars

      Historical Kana usage: How to read Spellings in Historical kana usage have been unchanged all the time in spite of changes of pronunciation.

      Now we are reading those spellings with modern pronunciation.

      ●In case of Ancient writings, the next rule is added.

       む (mu) of an auxiliary verb is to be read with
      ん N or M depending on what sound comes after
       
      E.g. Na m Myoho lips are together when we pronounce m

      The Japanese don't pronounce Mu like western folks MOO, they don't push out their lips for a start. This is a problem from being a literalist when common sense gets thrown out the window by those who chant Namoo Myoho Renge Kyo




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    3. Where does Nichiren teach *sound alike* chanting as the essential practice-- or even a hobby?t

      You are hung up on a concept that is NOT based on an actual teaching of Nichiren's

      And this begs the question, WHY do you believe that sounding alike, or in harmony and knowing Chinese character translations matters a damn ??

      You can't cite a single Gosho passage where Nichiren teaches this-- because he doesn't.

      Maybe you can get a position on the ghost writing team that is composing Daisaku Ikeda's "Sutras of the Future"...

      Yup! that's how far down hill you have taken this discussion, Noel--

      ~Katie -

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    4. And thus you address a person who believes exactly what Nichiren writes.....because you cannot produce a single passage of his teachings to support your own personal theories.

      Typical...


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  17. If you cant understand the meaning of http://kanji-symbol.net/common/images/txt/rel0006-kai.gif how can you be trusted with anything that is produced from your deluded mind


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    2. Noel claims :"Nichiren chose these Chinese symbols for their sound not their Chinese meaning. He chose them for the sound because they are close to the Indian word Namas. "

      Noel provides nothing from Nichiren's writings to support this claim.

      Then Noel says: "Why cant you understand this Katie ??? "

      I understand Noel's claims are not in the writings of Nichiren and do not accord with reason --- based on reading and studying Nichiren's writings for 28 years, while practicing *faith* according to Nichiren's teachings, I do not believe that Nichiren left out ANY significant teaching on the *ONE essential phrase* which is the ESSENTIAL practice that he propagated until he passed away.

      Thus, we can see how difficult it is to uphold and propagate the True teachings in this latter age when the single word, "faith" is perceived as a cross is feared by a vampire.

      In "The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra", Nichiren states:

      "In general there are four kinds of people who have great difficulty attaining Buddhahood. first are those predestined for the realms of Learning and Realization, second are those of incorrigible disbelief, third are those who calling to the doctrine of void, and fourth are those who slander the True Law. But through the Lotus Sutra, all of these people are able to attain Buddhahood. that is why the Lotus Sutra is called, *myo*."

      "Women, whether they live at the time of he Buddha, or in the Former, Middle or Latter Day of the Law cannot attain Buddhahood through any teaching but the Lotus Sutra. "

      "It may seem somewhat difficult for women of the age we live in to attain Buddhahood without changing their present form. But if they ;1)"...put their trust in the Lotus Sutra...,2) "...put their faith in the Lotus Sutra...; 3) "chant Namu-myoho-renge-kyo..."

      After nearly 28 years devoting myself to following the teachings of Nichiren, which I stained as a SGI member from the Gakkai publishing conglomerate, the mystery of that 7th character of the daimoku that Nichiren wrote about, but the Gajjai disregarded, is solved. I learned about the character, "mu" here on Eagle Peak and have been chanting the 7 characters of the daimoku as Nichiren actually wrote it since April of this year.

      Though I may have been born a woman in this lifetime and possess a mind that is "soft and weak", Nichiren states:

      "In the continent of Jambudvipa in the southern region of the world, there are 2,500 rivers, and every single one of them is winding. they are devios like the minds of the women of Jambudvipa. And yet there is a river called the Shabaya that follows a course as straight as a taunt rope, flowing directly into the Western sea. A woman who has faith in the Lotus Sutra will be like this river, proceeding directly to the Pure Land in the west. Such is the virtue of the single character myo."

      It is faith, not understanding that transforms the deluded minds of us common mortals in the Latter Day of the Law. It is mindful chanting of the seven characters Nichiren wrote and steadfast belief that arouses faith faith in the Lotus Sutra. It is faith that is the cause for encountering the Buddha in our own lives, and the wisdom to perceive the Buddha present in our lives. It is faith that purifies our common mortal deluded perceptions and opens our eyes to the True Reality of Myoho-renge-kyo permeating all life and its functions.

      Without faith there is no Buddha preaching the Wonderful Law that leads to attaining Buddhahood in our present form.

      Without faith there is only the void, and though one may trace pictures on its surface, nothing of what one has drawn will remain...

      ~Katie




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  18. Origins of Namu


    Etymology, meaning and origins[edit]

    Namaste (Namas + te, Devanagari: नमस् + ते = नमस्ते) is derived from Sanskrit and is a combination of the word namaḥ and the second person, dative, pronoun in its enclitic form te. The word namaḥ takes the Sandhi form namas before the sound t.

    Namaḥ means 'bow', 'obeisance', 'reverential salutation' or 'adoration' and te means 'to you' (singular dative case of 'tvam'). Therefore, Namaste literally means "bowing to you".

    A less common variant is used in the case of three or more people being addressed namely Namo vaḥ which is a combination of namaḥ and the enclitic 2nd person plural pronoun vaḥ The word namaḥ takes the Sandhi form namo before the sound v

    An even less common variant is used in the case of two people being addressed, namely, Namo vām, which is a combination of namaḥ and the enclitic 2nd person dual pronoun vām

    Excavations for Indus civilization have revealed many male and female terracotta figures in Namaste posture These archaeological findings are dated to be between 3000 BC to 2000 BC

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  19. "If you cant understand the meaning of http://kanji-symbol.net/common/images/txt/rel0006-kai.gif how can you be trusted with anything that is produced from your deluded mind"

    I am not trusting in my own mind, Noel. I believe what Nichiren states:

    "The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra-" ( Major Writings, Vol III, p. 3)
    (1266)

    "Namu-Myoho-Renge-Kyo" [ I am transcribing the correct transcription of Nichiren's writing--the two characters "na-mu" as opposed to the one character "Nam" that the Gakkai and NST have transcribed, published and chanted incorrectly)

    "Question: Is is possible, without understanding the meaning of the Lotus Sutra, but merely chanting the five or seven characters of Na-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo (Notice & characters], once a day, once a month, or simply once a year, once a decade, or once in a lifetime, to avoid falling into the four evil paths, and instead to eventually reach the stage of non-regression?"

    "Answer: Yes it is."

    Nichiren, not me says the *five* or *seven* characters, nott me, noel. He does not say *six* or *6,5* or *6.75* characters, Noel, Nichiren says these amazing benefits are due to chanting the *5* or *7* characters-- Myoho-renge-kyo is the Tithe of the Lotus Sutra-- the prefix "na-mu" written as two distinct characters means"To devote one's life".

    The difference between accepting what is written and employing discriminative thinking -- is the difference between *faith* and *disbelif*. If you believed exactly what Nichiren wrote, you would not employ discriminative thinking to *give it meaning*.

    Further along in this Gosho, Nichiren explains :

    "The Lotus sutra, wherein the Buddha honestly discarded all provisional teachings, says that one may "gain entrance through faith." And the Nirvana Sutra, which the Buddha preached in the grove of sal trees on the last day of his life, states, "Although there are innumerable practices which lead to enlightenment, if one teaches faith, then that includes all those practices."

    Nichiren continues:

    "Thus, faith is the basis requirement for entering the way of the Buddha. In the fifty-two stages of bodhisattva practice, the first ten stages, dealing with faith are basic, and the first of these ten stages is that of arousing pure faith. "

    Nchiren taught faith through his example, and thoroughly documented *bodily reading* of the Lotus sutra-- believing, sharing and upholding the Lotus Sutra EXACTLY as it is recored in writing, the Buddha's *own mind*. Nichiren *taught* faith, thus.

    If we are to learn *faith* doesn't it make sense that we *bodily read Nichiren's teachings?*-- IF we believe, share and uphold what Nichiren has written , we will "arouse pure faith". This has been my experience.--But let's see what else Nichiren has to say o the subject of "understanding the meaning" vs. "arousing pure faith"

    ~Katie

    cont'd.








    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "The monk Sunakshatra observed the two hundred and fifty precepts, mastered the four stages of meditation, and was versed in all twelve types of sutras, while Devadatta learned the sixty thousand non0-Buddhist teachings and the eighty thousand Buddhist teachings and could manifest eighteen miraculous powers with his body. And yet it is said that these men, because they had knowledge but no faith, are now in the great citadel of the Avichi Hell. Mahakashyapa and Shariputra on the other hand lacked knowledge but had faith, and the Buddha accordingly predicted that they would become Buddhas Light Bright and Flower Light respectively. The Buddha stated, "One who gives way to doubt does not have faith and will surely fall into the evil paths." These words refer to those who have knowledge but are without faith."(ibid. p.5)

      I would add that one example of an *evil path* evident today by those who lack *faith* in Nichiren's own teachings, are the many examples in the SGI, NST and Nichiren Shu of the teachings and guidance that: " destroys or brings confusion to the Buddha's teachings" Your dissertation here, Noel is in that same category.

      Embracing the exact teaching, believing it and *bodily reading it*-- chanting the 7 characters Nichiren wrote and sharing this teaching- is an "Act" of faith.Refuting your mentalizations and mind revelations is also an *act of faith*--None of these actions arise from MY deluded mind, Noel, they are in strict accord with what Nichiren wrote. It is obvious to me , and perhaps others who strive to practice faith as Nichiren taught, that ONLY when one chants with this *one mind of faith*-- meaning not being of 2 or more minds with regard to *meaning* based on discriminative thinking--etc; but just the ONE mind focused on faith, wisdom wells forth from within, where Shakymnuin Buddha himself appears! I leave it to you whether you accept this, but will add that unless you actually practice with the "one mind" of faith there is no way you can actually dispute it!

      Unless one gets the one essential phrase *right*-- meaning just exactly as Nichiren recorded it, one will not attain the wisdom to grasp anything else taught by the Buddha.

      Nichiren says this in "The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra" MW vol III, pg. 3-27) I encourage you to read the whole Gosho, because then you will see that I am relaying the teaching as Nichiren wrote it--

      ~Katie

      Delete
    2. "The sutra known as the Lotus Sutra is a scripture that has no match among all the sacred teachings of the Buddha’s lifetime.

      And, as indicated by its words “between Buddhas,” it can only be understood between one Buddha and another.

      What then does myō signify? It is simply the mysterious nature of our life from moment to moment, which the mind cannot comprehend or words express. When we look into our own mind at any moment, we perceive neither color nor form to verify that it exists. Yet we still cannot say it does not exist, for many differing thoughts continually occur. The mind cannot be considered either to exist or not to exist.

      Life is indeed an elusive reality that transcends both the words and concepts of existence and nonexistence. It is neither existence nor nonexistence, yet exhibits the qualities of both. It is the mystic entity of the Middle Way that is the ultimate reality.

      Myō is the name given to the mystic nature of life, and hō, to its manifestations.

      Renge, which means lotus flower, is used to symbolize the wonder of this Law. If we understand that our life at this moment is myō, then we will also understand that our life at other moments is the Mystic Law.

      This realization is the mystic kyō, or sutra. The Lotus Sutra is the king of sutras, the direct path to enlightenment, for it explains that the entity of our life, which manifests either good or evil at each moment, is in fact the entity of the Mystic Law.

      If you chant Myoho-renge-kyo with deep faith in this principle, you are certain to attain Buddhahood in this lifetime.

      That is why the sutra states, “After I have passed into extinction, [one] should accept and uphold this sutra. Such a person assuredly and without doubt will attain the Buddha way.” Never doubt in the slightest. - Nichiren

      Delete
    3. Right on schedule, Noel, you return to the questionable Gosho; "On Attaining Buddhahood" an early writing that has *mind only* leanings Nichiren had not yet cast off from the Tendai school, influenced by Zen doctrines.

      I can understand why Nichiren retained some of the influence from *his original school*, but I fail to understand why you are still awestruck by a teaching Nichiren himself discarded.

      Others [some cited by Nichiren] knew of the blessings contained in the title of the Lotus Sutra and some of them chanted "Myoho-renge-kyo". Nichiren added the prefix "Namu" written in the 2 characters "Na" and "Mu" --. He explained this saying that "Namu" signifies "devoting ones life"; further he claimed to be devoting his life to the Lotus Sutra. [ see "On Namu"]

      Nichiren propagated the seven characters, saying that chanting these seven characters is the Essential practice .

      Fair to say we are debating an essential aspect of Nichiren's Buddhism?

      If you cannot provide a passage from Nichiren's writings that supports your claim to knowing why he chose the two characters ,"Na" & Mu"- inscribed them on Gohonzon and wrote them exclusively ; if you cannot provide passages of Nichiren's writings to confirm he was focused on sound and not meaning, or discriminative thinking and not faith, then you are conceding defeat in this debate Noel-- even if you do not admit it.

      ~Katie


      Delete
    4. Namu (南無) is a transliteration into Japanese of the Sanskrit "namas", and Myōhō Renge Kyō is the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese title of the Lotus Sutra, in the translation by Kumārajīva (hence, Daimoku, which is a Japanese word meaning 'title').

      Namu is used in Buddhism as a prefix expressing taking refuge in a Buddha or similar object of veneration. In Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō, it represents devotion or conviction in the Mystic Law of Life (Saddharma) as expounded in the Lotus Sutra, not merely as one of many scriptures, but as the ultimate teaching of Buddhism, particularly with regard to Nichiren's interpretation.[citation needed] The use of Nam vs. Namu is, amongst traditional Nichiren schools, a linguistic but not necessarily a dogmatic issue,[11] since u is devoiced in many varieties of Japanese.[citation needed]

      Linguistically, Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō consists of the following transliterations:

      Namu 南無 "devoted to", from Sanskrit namas

      Myōhō 妙法 "exquisite law"[12] Myō 妙, from

      Middle Chinese mièw, "strange, mystery, miracle, cleverness"

      Hō 法, from Middle Chinese pjap, "law, principle, doctrine"

      Ren 蓮, from Middle Chinese len, "padma (lotus)"

      Ge 華, from Middle Chinese xwæ, "flower"

      Kyō 経, from Middle Chinese kjeng, "sutra"

      The Lotus Sutra is held by Nichiren Buddhists, as well as practitioners of the Tiantai and corresponding Japanese Tendai schools, to be the culmination of Gautama Buddha's 50 years of teaching. However, followers of Nichiren Buddhism consider Myōhō Renge Kyō to be the name of the ultimate law permeating the universe, and the human being is at one, fundamentally with this law (dharma) and can manifest realization, or Buddha Wisdom (attain Buddhahood), through Buddhist Practice.

      The seven characters of the phrase are written down the centre of the gohonzon, the mandala venerated by most Nichiren Buddhists. The veneration towards the mandala is understood by those who believe in it as the veneration for a deeper representation, which they believe to be the Buddha Nature inherent to their own lives

      Precise interpretations of Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō, how it is pronounced, and its position in Buddhist practice differ slightly among the numerous schools and sub-sects of Nichiren Buddhism, but "I take refuge in (devote or submit myself to) the Wonderful Law of the Lotus Flower Sutra" might serve as a universal translation - wiki

      Delete
    5. You don't include references from
      The Author of the daimoku of theLotus Sutra. That would be Nichiren
      Daishonin.

      I take it you cannot find any.

      Nothing more to discuss, Noel.
      Your points are refuted .-
      Na-mu-myo-ho- ren- ge-kyo !!!
      SEVEN equally precious characters ❤️
      ~Katie 😊

      Delete
    6. The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra

      Nichiren, follower of the Great Teacher Kompon [Dengyō]


      NAM-MYOHO-RENGE-KYO.

      Question: Is it possible, without understanding the meaning of the Lotus Sutra, but merely by chanting the five or seven characters of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo once a day, once a month, or simply once a year, once a decade, or once in a lifetime, to avoid being drawn into trivial or serious acts of evil, to escape falling into the four evil paths, and instead to eventually reach the stage of non-regression?

      Answer: Yes, it is"


      There you go Katie Nichiren's words "merely by chanting the five or seven characters of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo"in The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra. Its OK to chant both

      And its also OK to chant Namu-myoho-renge-kyo in 6 or 7 beats as what is happening

      Delete
    7. "Myō is the name given to the mystic nature of life, and hō, to its manifestations.

      Renge, which means lotus flower, is used to symbolize the wonder of this Law. If we understand that our life at this moment is myō, then we will also understand that our life at other moments is the Mystic Law.

      This realization is the mystic kyō, or sutra. The Lotus Sutra is the king of sutras, the direct path to enlightenment, for it explains that the entity of our life, which manifests either good or evil at each moment, is in fact the entity of the Mystic Law.

      If you chant Myoho-renge-kyo with deep faith in this principle, you are certain to attain Buddhahood in this lifetime."

      If we chant the 5 character Myoho-renge-kyo and the 7 character Namu Myoho-renge-kyo with deep faith in this principle, we are certain to attain Buddhahood in this lifetime."

      Delete
  20. "If you cannot provide a passage from Nichiren's writings that supports your claim to knowing why he chose the two characters ,"Na" & Mu"- inscribed them on Gohonzon and wrote them exclusively ; if you cannot provide passages of Nichiren's writings to confirm he was focused on sound and not meaning, or discriminative thinking and not faith, then you are conceding defeat in this debate Noel-- even if you do not admit it."

    If you cannot simply comprehend what is being revealed through what is being presented here it shows me how deep is your delusionary thinking. Nichiren has warned us of people like you in the age of Mappo

    ReplyDelete
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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. Namu is used in Buddhism as a prefix expressing taking refuge in a Buddha or similar object of veneration.

      In Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō, it represents devotion or conviction in the Mystic Law of Life (Saddharma) as expounded in the Lotus Sutra, not merely as one of many scriptures, but as the ultimate teaching of Buddhism, particularly with regard to Nichiren's interpretation

      The use of Nam vs. Namu is, amongst traditional Nichiren schools, a linguistic but not necessarily a dogmatic issue, since u is devoiced in many varieties of Japanese"

      Mu/MOO you have turned this linguistic issue into dogma because you insist that those who say Nam instead of Namu are wrong. What about people with speech impediments are they also bared from enlightenment because they don't MOO like you do

      Those of us that chant both Namu Myoho Renge Kyo and Nam Myoho Renge Kyo like NST,SGI and independents do, can do so with a clear conscience by having an informed mind not one that is under a cloud of delusion

      The 7 characters of Daimoku have never been disputed unlike the phonetics of Namu


      Namu 南無 "devoted to", from Sanskrit namas
      Na 南 South. Nichiren took Na out of Japanese word Minami that means South
      Mu 無 nothing.

      Myōhō 妙法 "exquisite law" Myō 妙, from
      Middle Chinese mièw, "strange, mystery, miracle, cleverness"

      Hō 法, from Middle Chinese pjap, "law, principle, doctrine"

      Ren 蓮, from Middle Chinese len, "padma (lotus)"

      Ge 華, from Middle Chinese xwæ, "flower"

      Kyō 経, from Middle Chinese kjeng, "sutra"

      7 characters, 7 syllables,6 sounds, 6 beats. All nichiren sects chant with 6 beats except when they slow it down stretching it out to 7 beats as you would do after silent prayer.

      U is devoiced in many varieties of Japanese

      む (mu) of an auxiliary verb is to be read with
      ん N or M depending on what sound comes after
      E.g. Na m Myoho lips are together when we pronounce m

      Nam-myo-ho- ren- ge-kyo is chanted much more than Na-mu-myo-ho- ren- ge-kyo during Gongyo


      Myōhō 妙法 "exquisite law" Myō 妙, from
      Middle Chinese mièw, "strange, mystery, miracle, cleverness"

      Hō 法, from Middle Chinese pjap, "law, principle, doctrine"

      Ren 蓮, from Middle Chinese len, "padma (lotus)"

      Ge 華, from Middle Chinese xwæ, "flower"

      Nichiren's interpretation of Myo- Ho - Ren- Ge is the essence that you still need to get your head around and have not come to terms with yet

      Namas/Namu and Sutra/Kyo are common expressions that shouldn't be too complicated for you to understand. This is why I've been trying to slowly spell it out for you or planting a seed so that hopefully one day or perhaps another life time that you'll have a paradigm shift in your consciousness

      Part of the Buddha nature is infinite compassion is on trial here

      Delete
    3. Correction

      7 characters, 7 syllables,6 sounds, 6 beats. All Nichiren sects chant with 6 beats except when they slow it down stretching it out to 7 beats with 7 sounds. One defined sound per Kanji character or syllable as we do after completion of the recitation the sixteenth (Life Span) chapter of the Lotus Sutra and in between silent prayers and at the end.

      Delete
    4. http://fraughtwithperil.com/rbeck/2007/04/26/nam-or-namu/

      “The seven jewels are exactly the seven orifices in one’s head, {eyes, nostrils, mouth, and ears] and these seven orifices are exactly the [seven characters] of Na Mu Myo Ho Ren Ge Kyo, the Source Gate [that shall spread in] the Last Days of the Dharma.” — Oral Teachings passed on by Niko Shonin

      “There are really cadence/beat and phonetics issues here. The phonetics issues are the ‘voicing’ and ‘aspiration’ {or lack thereof} of the ‘u’ in Namu. This can be Na-mu {2 beats}, Namu {1 beat}, or Nam’ {also 1 beat}. So there is the six {6} beat Dai-moku, a six {6} beat Dai-mok’, and a seven {7} beat prolonged ‘Dai-mo-ku’ {sic}.” — me

      On Chanting Meditation
      Insight-Wisdom Cultivation
      Nichiren Lotus Sutra Mantra
      Generally this is a topic that often causes people to become contentious or dismissive. Either way, the point is missed. It is a relevant issue that is worth examining and re-examining.
      ===================================================
      Charles wrote:
      Robin:
      Please forgive my ignorance. I am curious what Nichiren actually chanted. Was it “Namu” or “Nam” myoho-renge-kyo?

      I understand that when doing gongyo we do the hiki-daimoku before the silent prayers. I also understand that Nam is a contraction or abbreviated version of Namu(s) (Namah). But when you’re chanting daimoku using Namu-myoho-renge-kyo, it seems that that extra beat of “u” makes the mantra slower and less fluid. Where-in, chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo sounds “tighter, more vigorous, and more powerful.” Perhaps that’s just my singular familiarity with the SGI/NST method.

      I know that Nichiren often refers to the 5 or 7 characterss of daimoku, so what is your take on the difference in terms of execution, correctness, and benefit? And of course, what exactly did Nichiren chant?
      Please forgive my ignorance, but I am very curious about this.


      Charles

      Posted by Charles at January 13, 2006 11:36 AM
      ===================================================
      Charles also wrote:
      Robin:

      I just finsihed my evening prayers and can’t understand how you can chant “Namu” with one beat, because it’s two syllables.

      Anyway, your answer begs more. If Nichiren chanted Namu-myoho-renge-kyo vs. Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, why to millions of Nichiren’s followers chant Nam instead of Namu as the master did? If a mantra is supposed to be a mystic sound replete with tonal properties that unlock the mysteries of consciousness, why would we do different than he?

      I find this whole matter very troubling and the explanations unsatisfactory.

      Charles
      Posted by Charles at January 13, 2006 06:11 PM

      Delete
    5. continuation

      There are really cadence/beat and phonetics issues here. The phonetics issues are the ‘voicing’ and ‘aspiration’ {or lack thereof} of the ‘u’ in Namu. This can be Na-mu {2 beats}, Namu {1 beat}, or Nam’.

      So there is the six {6} beat Dai-moku, a six {6} beat Dai-mok’, and a seven {7} beat prolonged “Dai-mo-ku” {sic}.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Aspiration: In English, as in many languages, some letters represent two different sounds, one aspirated, and the other unaspirated. Aspiration is a “breath” that follows the initial part of a sound. Compare the sounds associated with the English letter t for example. Hold the back of your hand close to your mouth and say “Top.” Now say “Stop.” Can you feel the burst of air that follows the t in “Top” but not in “Stop”? The same difference exists between the p in “Peak” and the one in “Speak.” That burst of air after the t in “Top” and the p in “Peak” is called “aspiration.”


      And the Japanese have an “unaspirated vowel” of sorts, which can be voiced or unvoiced. It is common for the Japanese to sort of “swallow” vowels in certain locations in a word or a sentence. Sets’ instead of setsu {one beat} is not really a contraction. Either way, the ‘u’ is unaspirated; but it can be voiced or not.

      Same with Dai-moku. The ‘moku’ is one beat, and the ‘u’ is unaspirated. Some will say it Dai-mok’, but it is never correctly read as ‘Dai-mo-ku’.


      Now Na-mu is usually two beats, and the “u” is aspirated. That is how the “hiki” daimoku is chanted, with 7 beats.

      For a 6 beat mantra, as often used in shodai, we treat Namu as if it is drawn with one kanji. The ‘u’ becomes unaspirated. It may be voiced as in Namu {one beat}, or unvoiced as in Nam’.


      Domo-ari-ga-to
      Dom’-ari-ga-to
      Dom’-ari-ga_t


      There are several places in Gon-gyo {sutra reciting} where two syllables get one beat. Usually, the two syllables that get one beat are drawn with one kanji. For example, Hon Matsu Ku Kyo To. Matsu is drawn with one kanji and gets one beat. The “u” in matsu is unaspirated. Some Japanese voice the u, as in matsu {one beat]. Others unvoice it as mats’. It can also be contracted as “Hon Ma_ku_kyo to.” But the u in matsu is never aspirated, that would make it two beats {ma-tsu}. We never read it as Ma-tsu.


      Sometimes, for the sake of cadence, two syllables drawn with one kanji get just one beat. The example that I recall is that Sha Ka Mu Ni is drawn with 4 kanji, but read with only 2 beats — Shaka-Muni.

      This also occurs with the two {2} kanji for Nan & Mu, when they become the elided Nam’ or a one beat Namu, to create a six {6} beat mantra for shodai.

      Here are two sound files of the six {6} beat Odaimoku with the “u” voiced but ‘unaspirated’; the mantra is Namu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo:

      Delete
  21. Yet no words by Nichiren on phonetics and beats-- Just Chant the 7 characters or the 5 characters--. The phonetics and beats are your musings, Noel. That wraps it up for me.

    You intejerct, you rationalize and until you take Nichiren's warnings about your what you add, subtract multiply and divide regarding his teachings, you are looking pretty foolish suggesting Nichiren warned you about "people like me"

    Too funny...
    ~Katie

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    1. The phonetics and beats aren't my invention. Your unfounded comments are evidence of your foolishness and slanderous nature

      Not funny 😒 but rather shameful

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    3. Na-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge -kyo NST,SGI,NS,KH 7 beats

      Namu- Myo-ho- Renge- Kyo NS,KH 6 beats

      Nam-Myo-ho-renge-kyo NST,SGI 6 beats


      If the beat is the same we can chant daimoku together the correct way as native Japanese speakers do

      There is oneness in the beat and pronunciation of Nam and Namu when it is chanted by Japanese speakers

      Forget about achieving oneness from some mooing nichiren shu, kempon hokke and Independent English speakers that do not know how to chant Namu the correct way as native Japanese speakers do.

      "This also occurs with the two {2} kanji for Nan & Mu, when they become the elided Nam’ or a one beat Namu, to create a six {6} beat mantra for shodai.

      Here are two sound files of the six {6} beat Odaimoku with the “u” voiced but ‘unaspirated’; the mantra is Namu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo:"

      They do not know what they do even though they think they do and resist correction because of their pride about something that they think they are experts about but know little about

      Delete
    4. No passages of Nichiren's writings. i wonder why Nichiren didn't focus on phonetics and beats ? Are you implying Nichiren would leave out an "Essential" aspect of the ESSENTIAL practice he was teaching for the 10,000 years of mappo?

      C'mon, Noel, that is absurd!!

      You are employing *dsicrimniative* thinking and analyzing with your shari hotsu life condition-- Nichiren did write about that !

      Your disbelief has gone beyond incorrigible-- it is insufferable !

      You lost this debate., and your *shari hotsu* pride is keeping you from appreciating the *correct* techies you encountered and practicing them!

      BTW, I take seriously every reason women cannot attain Buddhahood through any other sutra or practice; I totally get all of my weaknesses of mind and resolve that are my own karmicc impediments-- which is why I will remain steadfast when to comes to the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren's teaching, his writings that I take *literally*. It is my one hope, Noel, -- and I continue to see actual proof of the improvements in my mind, perceptions, actions that serve to depend my faith. I, too have shari hotsu aspects, which serve to make doubly determined to be steadfast in faith--

      I am not preaching to you from a lofty place, Noel-- this is a moment to moment struggle sometimes-- but I know, my life knows the difference between correct and incorrect. I am not insisting you take my word, either. though I do hope at some point you realize I do have compassion for you, but I firmly believe, through my own experience tha *strict* is the eye opener, not warm fuzzies!

      Chant the 7 characters with mindfulness for each, character ; create the rhythm that sounds and feels best to you-- Do this consistently morning and evening, day and night for 120 days-- and then, let's talk again :-)

      Best,
      ~Katie

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    5. There is still hope left for you Katie

      MINNEAPOLIS (The Borowitz Report) – Scientists have discovered a powerful new strain of fact-resistant humans who are threatening the ability of Earth to sustain life, a sobering new study reports.

      The research, conducted by the University of Minnesota, identifies a virulent strain of humans who are virtually immune to any form of verifiable knowledge, leaving scientists at a loss as to how to combat them.

      “These humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information,” Davis Logsdon, one of the scientists who contributed to the study, said. “And yet, somehow, they have developed defenses that, for all intents and purposes, have rendered those faculties totally inactive.”

      More worryingly, Logsdon said, “As facts have multiplied, their defenses against those facts have only grown more powerful.”

      While scientists have no clear understanding of the mechanisms that prevent the fact-resistant humans from absorbing data, they theorize that the strain may have developed the ability to intercept and discard information en route from the auditory nerve to the brain. “The normal functions of human consciousness have been completely nullified,” Logsdon said.

      While reaffirming the gloomy assessments of the study, Logsdon held out hope that the threat of fact-resistant humans could be mitigated in the future. “Our research is very preliminary, but it’s possible that they will become more receptive to facts once they are in an environment without food, water, or oxygen,” he said. - Andy Borowitz

      Delete
    6. My revised answer to Mark is equally relevant to you, Mudpie and to who ever this concerns


      Mark; "We just can never harmoniously chant together if you chant Nam Myoho renge kyo and I chant Namu Myoho renge kyo. Do you think that's what Nichiren desired?"

      Yes we can harmoniously chant together if you chant Namu Myoho renge kyo and I chant Nam Myoho renge kyo with 6 beats correctly like native Japanese speakers do but we can never harmoniously chant together if you start to Moo like a cow like native English speakers do

      Nichiren's concern was that we Chant 7 characters or the 5 characters.


      Namu myoho renge kyo or Myoho renge kyo


      You, Shu and Kempon Hokke are the ones that have been making the big deal over MOO.


      Nichiren Shu and Kempon Hokke just want to be different from NST so they emphasise MU like a trademark


      The NST and SGI haven't criticised the way that Namu is pronounced during 6 beat Daimoku by Native English speakers to my knowledge but it is high time this mater is brought to the attention of those concerned


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtazdZrQ9_g

      This is the unfortunate result of what happens when Nichiren Shu and Kempon Hokke Native English speakers chant together. They are all chanting Namu myho renge kyo in harmony with each other

      Chant Namu or Nam in one beat chant Na-mu with 2 beats. If I chanted Nam Myoho Renge Kyo and you chant Namu Myoho Renge Kyo continuously in unison at the same time using 6 beats there will be discord because English speakers do not know how to chant Namu the correct way as native Japanese speakers do

      Nichiren would of chanted the 7 characters in a 6 beat format and the 7 characters in the 7 beats ( As Nichiren Shoshu do) at different times is more feasible rather than he only chanted a 6 beat or a 7 beat Daimoku all the time

      Delete
    7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCyKKhOrOqE

      Listen good from this Nichiren Shu priest how to correctly pronounce the Japanese reading of the Chinese (Kanji) characters - Shindoku reading

      Delete

    8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCyKKhOrOqE

      Listen good from this Nichiren Shu priest how to correctly pronounce the Japanese reading of the Chinese (Kanji) characters - Shindoku reading


      By the way since we are on the topic of Daimoku
      pronunciation the Japanese pronunciation of Renge is in between R and L but closer to L. We can say Lenge instead of Renge. It is as the Japanese do when they touch the palate with the tongue when they pronounce La Li Lu Le Lo not Ra Ri Ru RE Ro this is a mistake as is Namu Myoho Renge Kyo which should be Nam Myoho Lenge Kyo from what I have so far been able to ascertain from a non bias standpoint with information presented.

      It is easier to pronounce Lenge than Renge as it rolls off the tongue and is easier to pronounce Nam Myoho Lenge Kyo than it is to pronounce Namu Myoho Renge Kyo. Why labour under unnecessary burden if it isn't necessary, isn't life already tough enough

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    9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB3fTV74yco

      Priests Chanting Namu myoho renge kyo with 6 beat in time with the stick hitting a wooden object

      The 2 kanji characters for Namu get 1 beat

      Now Na-mu is usually two beats, and the “u” is aspirated. That is how the “hiki” daimoku is chanted, with 7 beats.

      For a 6 beat mantra, as often used in shodai, we treat Namu as if it is drawn with one kanji. The ‘u’ becomes unaspirated. It may be voiced as in Namu {one beat}, or unvoiced as in Nam’.


      Domo-ari-ga-to
      Dom’-ari-ga-to
      Dom’-ari-ga_t


      There are several places in Gon-gyo {sutra reciting} where two syllables get one beat. Usually, the two syllables that get one beat are drawn with one kanji. For example, Hon Matsu Ku Kyo To. Matsu is drawn with one kanji and gets one beat. The “u” in matsu is unaspirated. Some Japanese voice the u, as in matsu {one beat]. Others unvoice it as mats’. It can also be contracted as “Hon Ma_ku_kyo to.” But the u in matsu is never aspirated, that would make it two beats {ma-tsu}. We never read it as Ma-tsu.


      Sometimes, for the sake of cadence, two syllables drawn with one kanji get just one beat. The example that I recall is that Sha Ka Mu Ni is drawn with 4 kanji, but read with only 2 beats — Shaka-Muni.

      This also occurs with the two {2} kanji for Nan & Mu, when they become the elided Nam’ or a one beat Namu, to create a six {6} beat mantra for shodai.

      Here are two sound files of the six {6} beat Odaimoku with the “u” voiced but ‘unaspirated’; the mantra is Namu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo:

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  22. Nichiren wrote : "Namu-myoho-renge-kyo"
    Nichiren did not write primers on phonetics or beats.
    Nichiren did not teach *chant same rhythm with others to create unity"
    Nichiren taught the *ONE* mind of faith--not the one voice of many chanting together in 'harmony"

    I follow Nichiren.

    No words written by Nichiren-- no topic to discuss here-- WHY? Because this is the major doctrine of Nichiren's Buddhism; this is the ESSENTIAL teaching/practice of the Lotus Sutra.

    Your attitude toward that is as off-putting as your periodic slights toward me-- BUT, ultimately, Noel, it is you who has an issue believing Nichiren exclusively, without adding your own spin or taking cues to do this by priests, and other sources-. You lack faith, you will suffer--moreso if you keep jabbing at me because I do have faith. I think I will exit this thread on this note:

    Hope you set about *learning* faith-
    It is difficult to teach faith.
    Only Nichiren qualifies as a teacher, imo because he *lived* faith and wrote all about it. I strongly recommend you start and stick with Nichiren's writings- rely on what is written in the sutras, not discriminative thinking.-- and least of all the *opinions of others*...

    Best,
    ~Katie






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  23. And especially your opinions Katie

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  24. Only Nichiren qualifies as a teacher, imo because he *lived* faith and wrote all about it. I strongly recommend you start and stick with Nichiren's writings- rely on what is written in the sutras, not discriminative thinking.

    You can follow this one, Noel :-)

    Good luck!
    ~Katie

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  25. We don't follow Nichiren Shu priests. We follow Nichiren and priests who actually do follow Nichiren, living the Sutra with a bodily reading.

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  26. Thanks, Mark. I don't want to discount how difficult it is to sort out what and who accord exactly with the writings of Nichiren, but I also want to acknowledge how on this one site, "Eagle Peak" the means for determining these things is demonstrated; it is ongoing; it is *work* in process-- always progressing.

    I look forward to the inevitable future, when the longest comment threads are dialogues amongst true followers of Nichiren, sharing more relevance , or actual proof of living the Sutra with a *bodily reading* --

    I am not surprised that the disruptions and the resulting obstruction to dialogues focused on *seeking the Law* are frequent, as that accords with Nichiren's teachings, but I am hopeful that our continued dedication to responding first and only with "scriptures in hand" will transform these devilsh functions right before the eyes of readers who have yet to appreciate the true benefit of Nichiren's Lotus Sutra Buddhism.

    I think that, AS members of the , "Treasure of the Order" [Nichiren and his followers] continue to encounter each other , learn each others names and appreciate each other's unique contributions and qualities, we begin to assist each other in profound ways. My appreciation for true disciples, like Shinkei and votaries, like yourself give real meaning to the *concept* of repaying debts of gratitude. Like all sincere actios, one must experience the gratitude before one realizes she has such a debt...

    Best,
    ~Katie





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  27. Perfect Katie. My daughter's visiting tomorrow [my wife doesn't drive] and I asked my wife to please send off the requested Gohonzons. I have been working > 40 hours a week despite my illness and had no time to get to the post office.

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  28. I am relived to know the Gohonzon has not yet been sent.[ I will email you my new address]. My husband and I are moving this weekend. It is perfect timing, actually, since Kevin has converted to Nichiren Lotus Sutra Buddhism, this Gohonzon will be reverently and joyfully received into our new home with the deep gratitude.

    "Therefore, when you chant the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra, you should be aware that it is a more joyful thing than for one who was born blind to gain his eyesight and see his father and mother, and a rarer thing than for one who has been seized by a powerful enemy to be released and reunited with his wife and children,."

    Such has been my experience since my husband began to chant Namu-myoho-renge-kyo and open his eyes to the truth about SGI.

    After nearly 18 years in this prison of slander, bound by my commitment in faith and marriage to a SGI MD district leader, I found "Eagle Peak", where I learned the practice of shakubuku,-- ("the forceful practices", quite an eye opener for me), and based on correct faith and steadfast resolve, I have lead my husband to practicing faith in Myoho-renge-kyo.

    Despite agonizing ordeals I am hesitant to recount, I have sought refuge only in the Lotus Sutra, devoting my life in every sense to upholding Nichiren's teachings and repaying my debt of gratitude to Shakyamuni Buddha.

    I am praying that the benefits I have received, that are not unlike being released from a powerful enemy and reunited with my husband and children, return to you and your family with my deep gratitude for your steadfast faith and dedication to denouncing the enemies of the Lotus Sutra.

    Na-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo
    Namu-myoho-renge-kyo,
    With deep respect,
    ~Katie

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  31. Na mu myo ho ren ge kyo
    Namu myoho renge kyo

    Nam myo ho ren ge kyo
    Nam myoho renge kyo

    Myo ho ren ge kyo
    Myoho renge kyo


    Na mu myo ho len ge kyo
    Namu myoho lenge kyo

    Nam myo ho len ge kyo
    Nam myoho lenge kyo

    Myo ho len ge kyo
    Myoho lenge kyo

    Sometimes being kind is more important than being right

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  32. >>"Sometimes being kind is more important than being right"<<

    I completely understand your reasoning because, I too, believed "kindness" was key to converting my husband to Nichiren's Buddhism. However, 17 years and 5 months of *peaceful practices* full of kindness and supported by forbearance did not cause my husband to awaken to the truth about SGI, much less correct faith and practice of Nichiren's teachings.

    5 months of *forceful practices* based on shakubuku, which I encountered myself on Eagle Peak , penetrated my delusions regarding my own faith and my practice--which had been influenced by *human revolution/value creation teachings of the SGI*. Those teachings led to the hell of incessant suffering-- and it was not until I began to chant correct daimoku that I was able to see Ikeda clearly and his teachings as slander.

    SGI is indeed a collection of arrogant false sages, they are the third powerful enemy, Noel. I have experienced the depth of suffering--for me, even peripheral involvement and *kindly leaving them strictly alone*, but the experience of breaking my husband's attachments to his 28 year indoctrination to *mind only* teachings and a material -gain/'personal -comfort focus practice is a joyful thing- inexpressible in mere words.

    Throughout the past 17 years and 5 months, I have been criticized and even mocked here in my home by my former SGI Boston District leader husband, which was infinitely more painful than enduring your often times demeaning remarks here on Eagle Peak. I could say that engaging you here actually helped me more effective deal with my husband-- as I began to ALWAYS discuss these matters with scripture in hand. He could not deny what he read here and what we had *lived through* . I did not desist-- at any time, and only gained more confidence as I felt my own life transforming on the deepest levels. My *bodily reading* of Nichiren's teachings on rebuking slander was the key.

    It is the Law we are trying to uphold-- just how precious one believes Myoho-renge-kyo really is how deeply one believes in the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren's writings is fundamentally the basic requirement for receiving blessings and appreciating the true benefit of literally, and bodily following Nichiren. And thus will appreciate Nichiren's counsel "On Practicing The Buddha's Teachings" even more:

    "Understand then that the votary who practices Lotus Sutra exactly as the Buddha teaches will without fail be attacked by the three powerful enemies."

    The vital message is this:

    "Life flashes by in but a moment. no matter how many terrible enemies you may encounter, banish all fears and never think of backsliding. Even if someone were to cut off our heads with a saw, impale our bodies with lances, or shackle our feet and bore them through with a gimlet, as long as we are alive, we must keep chanting Namu-myoho renge-kyo, Namu-myoho-renge-kyo."

    The one essential phrase, the essential practice is what matters first and foremost, for those who follow Nichiren. I am sharing my experience to attest to the profound meaning of taking what Nichiren writes, literally. I did not suggest or insist my husband chant in harmony with me, but only that he chant the words exactly as Nichiren wrote them. For the first time in his 28 year practice, Kevin practiced faith based on the correct doctrine.

    The Great Teacher Chang-an says "One who destroys or brings confusion to the Buddha's teachings is betraying them. If one befriends another person but lacks the mercy to correct him, one is in fact his enemy." He also says, "One who rids the offender of evil is acting as his parent."

    What's kindness or love got to do with it?? Nothing, Noel-- only one's stedfast faith in Myoho-renge-kyo and belief in Nichiren matter.

    Na-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo !!

    ~Katie





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  33. Happy 😊 that you have found peace with your family. My family has has experienced tremendous change for the good since we removed Nichikans Gohonzon and enshrined the Denpo gohonzon

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