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Friday, August 19, 2016

Nichiren was a scriptural Buddhist

Mack: So, perhaps I should hold my tongue on this, but perhaps not. I'm not, after all a Kempon Hokke member, but I would like to explain why that is, why I choose to comment here and now, and why I think Shamon (Rev. Tsuchiya) has a point in his criticisms.

I came to the Kempon Hokke after a disruptive event in my life looking to address the concerns I had always had about the doctrines SGI has inherited from Nichiren Shoshu. This conversion was not easy for me, and in my opinion there are two fundamental reasons for this.

First of all, this blog spends more time condemning SGI as hellbound heretics than it does expounding on the teachings of Nichiren and Shakyamuni. Mark, you claim that simply reading the texts gives one a straightforward understanding, but the reality is that 1) not everyone draws the same conclusions that you, personally draw from the texts. This is an issue of hermeneutics. What's more there are often times where you seem to contradict yourself within one or two blog posts (though I give the benefit of the doubt and assume you have simply not expressed yourself clearly,) thereby making the points you wish to make with the texts you cite all that much more difficult to accept. It seems, at times, as if you are simply honoring your own opinion, you own interpretations of the texts, as the ultimate truth.

Mark: I follow the guidelines in Establishing the Correct Teachings for the Peace of the Land and not your's or any other's [regarding SGI]. This blog is one man's preaching which you are free to accept or reject. That which accords with the teachings should be accepted and that which is contrary to the teachings should be rejected. The texts that have been authenticated do indeed reveal both a straightforward path and lead to a straightforward understanding. The difficulty lies in following the texts. It is more a soteriological issue [issue of salvation] than a hermeneutical issue [issue of interpretation]. Why would it matter that I contradict myself? Are you following the Law or the person? If you care about my salvation and I am making a serious error or committing a serious slander, then you should correct me but you had better have some clear passages of proof to back up your assertions. As far as getting it right, I have outlined the criteria:

The Nichiren Shoshu/SGI doctrine of Nichiren as True, Eternal, Original Buddha, is nothing more than "ornate rhetoric and meaningless talk". The moment Nichiren revealed the Three Great Secret Laws, nothing else remained hidden in the depths, either within the Lotus Sutra or the teachings of Nichiren. Faith or lack of faith in the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin is the issue. 

Accurately following the teachings is different than originalism or seeking out what the Daishonin had in mind, the interpretation of others, or hearsay. Nichiren was a scriptural Buddhist. What Nichiren actually wrote is that which should be believed and embraced. It is not easy to cull what the Daishonin actually wrote because there are many forgeries in his name. But it is not impossible, as proven by the efforts of various scholars and scholar-priests. By utilizing their methods, we can come to know the truth of the teachings. One method is textual parsimony. What this means is that the writings are weighted. Those actually found in Nichiren's hand are weighted more heavily. Those considered more profound by the majority of priests and scholars, for example, the Five Major Works, are weighted more heavily. Those principles found in the majority of the authenticated works too, are weighted more heavily. The principles in the unauthenticated works are accepted or rejected in light of the Five Major Works and in light of the entire body of authenticated works. Utilizing this method, one can forge strong faith and therefore understanding [because Nichiren's teachings are fundamentally consistent and non-contradictory].

Mack: You also seem overly focused with making the point that SGI members are hellbound without making provision for their conversion. 

Mark: This assertion is baseless. Shakubuku [the forceful practices] is the provision for their conversion. 

Mack: This behavior is more characteristic of Abrahamic religions like Islam, Christianity, and Judaism than it is of Buddhism. 

Mark: I am truly surprised at your statement. Read the Lotus Sutra [Chapters 3 and 20] and read Nichiren. He makes hundreds of references to hell. if you don't like all of Nichiren's teachings, if you accept only that which you like and reject the rest, you are no different than SGI and you are not a Nichiren Buddhist. 

Mack: In focusing on Nichiren's writing that says that Mappo will have as few good friends as dirt under a fingernail when compared to the grains that comprise the world, you ignore Nichiren's larger goal of converting all of humanity to the teaching and transforming this whole Saha world into a Pure Land.

Mark: I try and focus on accuracy and quality so the teachings will long endure. SGI and others will destroy the teachings in no time. I think your view is both shortsighted and lacks historical perspective. We live in a relatively peaceful time. People, in general, are complacent and satisfied with the little they have, thinking it a lot. When the next hydrogen bomb explodes over or within a populous area, or when the coastal cities are swallowed up by the ocean, or when great winds and drought leave the land littered with corpses, millions will take up the faith as they did immediately after World War II. This time however, thanks to the efforts of those who really care about the faith, they will take up the correct faith that actually leads to Buddhahood and the Buddha's land.

Mack: Your stance makes Buddhism a practice for an exclusive elite rather than a mission for sowing the seeds of Buddhahood for all living beings.

Mark: I believe you only see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear:

"But for your person, as a householder, the essence is for you to chant 'Namu Myôhô renge kyô' with no other thought and also to make offering to the monks. And also, if it is according to the Sutra text, one should also 'expound it according to their strength', shouldn't one? When the world is sorrowful, though you think, 'Even the sufferings of the present life are painful, how much more the sufferings of the world to come,' chant 'Namu Myôhô renge kyô', and when it joyful also, think, 'The joy of the present life is a dream within a dream; it is the joy of the Pure Land of Spiritual Mountain (Ryôzen jôdo) that is the true joy' and with this chant 'Namu Myôhô renge kyô', and, practicing without backsliding, wait for the time approaching the very end and see! If you run and climb the Mountain of Sublime Enlightenment and take a good look at the four directions, how fantastic! The Realm of Dharmas is the Land of Tranquil Light with lapis lazuli as its earth and the eight ways bounded with ropes of gold, and from the heavens the four types of flowers rain down, in the void music is heard, the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas caressed by the winds of Eternity, Bliss, Self and Purity, indeed rejoice and are happy. And is it nearing the time when we too shall be ranked in that number, disporting and playing and taking pleasure. When the mind of faith is weak, one cannot go to such an auspicious place; one cannot go!" (The ninth day of the twelfth month of the Second Year of Kenji (1276): KHS, p.581) -- Reply to Lord Matsuno

Mack: You seem to view martyrdom - actually a means to an end - as the highest calling in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. This is completely illogical, perhaps even fanatical. You seem to view extreme persecution and the suffering that comes along with it as an end to itself rather than a means to spread the teaching during extreme circumstances. I don't think getting ourselves killed for the Dharma is the highest calling of Buddhism, nor does anything that Nichiren or Shakyamuni have left us indicate to me that we should measure our spiritual progress exclusively by how much we are reviled and abused.

Mark: Actually, I follow the Lotus Sutra Chapter 13 in particular and Nichiren Daishonin on such matters:


Mack: The tradition describes votaries as being abused for standing up for the teaching against persecution, not individuals seeking out conflict. As far as I can tell, you seem to interpret the scriptures of our tradition as calling for the latter.

Mark: Nichiren wasn't seeking out conflict when he gave his first sermon on the evils of Nembutsu but he knew it was coming: "But once a person of forceful character has come forward to make this sutra passage known in a bold and uncompromising fashion, then grave matters are certain to occur."  Likewise, I am not seeking conflict but fully expect that it will occur.

75 comments:

  1. I guess since I simply can not believe a real hell exists for any reason but to threaten me to belief. Bye-bye Nichiren I won't miss you.

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  2. Stomach cancer, disembowelment, bursting brain aneurysm, mauled by a grizzly, late term abortion...all are very real hells right here on earth. To disbelieve the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren is to be stupid.

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  3. Hell doesn't care what you believe in

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    1. "Hell doesn't care what you believe in"

      Hell it is one of 10 states [10 worlds] of life -- Hell is NOT one of the* three realms of life*--. Hell is neither a *distinct*living being nor a *specific* place in our environment.

      As a function of life, Hell is perceived and experienced in direct relation to one's own state of life. however, the conditions for living beings to experience the life state of hell, and the manifestation of this state of life, hell- in our environment arise from *slander of the Law*, as Nichiren taught---and I fully believe. Nichiren also taught the *wonderful means for overcoming all sufferings*-- even the hell of incessant suffering.

      In "The Three Kinds of Treasure" Nichiren writes to Shijo Kingo:

      " If you should fall into hell for some grave offense, no matter how Shakyamuni Buddha might urge me to become a Buddha, I would refuse; I would rather go to hell with you. For if you and I should fall into hell together, we would find Shakyamuni Buddha and the Lotus Sutra there. It would be as if the moon were illuminating the darkness."

      Mutual possession of the 10 worlds-- practicing faith in Myoho-Renge-Kyo, makes ALL the difference..

      In my humble opinion,
      ~Katie







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  4. "Stomach cancer, disembowelment, bursting brain aneurysm, mauled by a grizzly, late term abortion...all are very real hells right here on earth."

    To which can be added, depression, anxiety, life limiting phobias, paranoia and the other forms of mental and emotuonal distress that result ftom a fragmented or fragmenting mind.

    As can the slower acting but seemingly unstoppable climate change, deforestation, pollution and environnental degredation that are largely the result of modern hunam activities brought about by pursuit of profit - the poisons of greed and ignorance.

    All hells, right here, right now.

    Tell the African farmer whose land has dried up through extended droughts cause by the energy hungry activities of people in the rich North West, whose crops have withered abd cattle starved and whose family is famished, that they are not in hell.

    Tell the victims of the Bophal chemical disaster or their malformed descendats, who continue to live with those effects and are denied proper compensation, that that is not in hell.

    Tell the Brazilian mothers raising children with Zika virus in the poor Favellas, where State money goes to pay for Olymipic prestige and glory, that that is not hell.

    Or the children and others who've had their flesh sliced, limbs severed, faces disfigured by cluster bombs dropped by powerful allies propping up a corrupt and wealthy elite in a game of political supremecy and who are denied basic medical care because their hospitals have been deliberately targeted to win that unholy war, tell them that's not hell.

    It's easy to walk away when one is fortunate enough to live in a place where none of that is happening and when one can bury one's head in the distractions of a comfortable life.

    It's easy to switch channels and avoid anything that's distressing in case it spoils the party or brings you down. Itcs easy just to walk away, "the moment someone tells me to care I just say bye, bye other peoples problems and suffering, I won't miss them".

    It's easy to be Anonymous and not give a damn.

    But we don't do easy here, nor did Nichiren, we do difficult because the many problems we have, right here,right now are difficult and let's face it Anon, with so many people willing to walk away for an easy, pleasurable and comfortable life, somebody's got to...

    Faith is the foundation, the many and various other acts of kindness and generosity that arise from it and are applied in it's practitioners lives, from the greater urge to give a damn, not walk away, to care - well who taught and lived that out? Oh yeah, that's right, Nichiren (who's OK as long as he doesn't talk about hell or anything that might spoil our fun - according to some)...

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    1. "All hells, right here, right now."

      Question: When someone displays animosity toward the votary of the Lotus Sutra in this latter age, what hell will that person fall into?

      Answer: The second volume of the Lotus Sutra states: “If this person [should slander a sutra such as this], or on seeing those who read, recite, copy, and uphold this sutra, should despise, hate, envy, or bear grudges against them... When his life comes to an end he will enter the Avīchi hell, be confined there for a whole kalpa, and when the kalpa ends, die there again. He will keep repeating this cycle for a countless number of kalpas.”

      Five hundred yojanas beneath the surface of the earth is the palace of King Yama. And fifteen hundred yojanas beneath the palace of King Yama are the eight great hells and the rest of the hells.

      Of these 136 hells, 128 are for the consignment of persons who have committed minor offenses; the eight great hells are for those who have committed grave offenses.

      Of the eight great hells, seven are for people who have committed the ten evil acts.

      The eighth hell—the hell of incessant suffering—is for the consignment of three types of persons: those who have committed the five cardinal sins, those who have been unfilial, and those who have slandered the Law. The passage I have just quoted makes it clear that people who curse, revile, or slander the votary of the Lotus Sutra in this latter age, even if they do so merely in jest, will fall into this hell. - Letter to Hōren

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    3. I SEE from your letter that you have been stricken with a painful affliction. On the one hand, knowing that you are in agony grieves me, but on the other, I am delighted.

      The Vimalakīrti Sutra states: “At that time the wealthy Vimalakīrti thought to himself, ‘I am ill, lying on my bed, [yet why does the World-Honored One, man of great compassion, not take pity on me]?’ . . . At that time the Buddha said to Manjushrī, ‘Go visit Vimalakīrti, and inquire after his illness.’” The Nirvana Sutra says, “At that time the Thus Come One . . . assumed the appearance of one who is ill in body and lay on his right side like a sick man.”

      The Lotus Sutra states, “[The Thus Come One is well and happy], with few ills and few worries.” The eighth volume of Great Concentration and Insight states: “Vimalakīrti lay on his sickbed in Vaishālī, making his illness a pretext to promote the teachings . . . Through his death, the Thus Come One taught the eternity [of life], and through illness, the power [of Buddhism].”

      It also says: “There are six causes of illness: (1) disharmony of the four elements; (2) improper eating or drinking; (3) inappropriate practice of seated meditation; (4) attack by demons; (5) the work of devils; and (6) the effects of karma.”

      The Nirvana Sutra reads: “There are three types of people whose illness is extremely difficult to cure.

      The first is those who slander the great vehicle; the second, those who commit the five cardinal sins; and the third, icchantikas, or persons of incorrigible disbelief. These three categories of illness are the gravest in the world.”

      It also states: “One who creates evil karma in this life... will surely suffer in hell.... But by making offerings to the three treasures, one avoids falling into hell and receives the retribution in this life, in the form of afflictions of the head, eye, or back.”

      Great Concentration and Insight states, “Even if one has committed grave offenses... the retribution can be lessened in this life. Thus, illness occurs when evil karma is about to be dissipated.”

      In his Treatise on the Great Perfection of Wisdom, Bodhisattva Nāgārjuna says: “Question:... [Answer]: If that is so, then none of the sutras, from the Flower Garland to the Wisdom sutras, is a secret teaching, but the Lotus Sutra is secret.... [The Lotus Sutra is] like a great physician who can change poison into medicine.” T’ien-t’ai explained the quotation further, saying: “This can be likened to a skilled physician who can change poison into medicine.... That persons of the two vehicles were given the prophecy of their enlightenment in this sutra means that it can change poison into medicine. This is what Great Perfection of Wisdom means when it says, ‘The various sutras are not secret teachings; only the Lotus Sutra is secret.’”


      Great Concentration and Insight says, “The Lotus Sutra can cure them [illnesses], which is why it is called myō, or wonderful.” Miao-lo says, “Because it can cure what is thought to be incurable, it is called myō, or wonderful.”

      On Curing Karmic Disease

      I'm presently suffering karmic retribution in the form of a sore back, much better than falling into Hell

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  5. "I guess since I simply can not believe a real hell exists for any reason but to threaten me to belief. " Anonymous

    I am in agreement with resisting *beliefs* the are cloaked in *threats*. My response would be to investigate the matter, which can be a daunting task, not unlike what Americans are thrust into with each successively mind bending Presidential election!

    Investigating Nichiren's ACTUAL teachings, I have deep respect for the *warnings* Nichiren issued against disregarding the The Lotus Sutra. These WARNINGS bear out today, no different than they did in Nichiren's time. By the same token, the benefits one attains for chanting Namu-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, and following Nichiren's example, are real and enduring.

    Correctly perceiving the 10 worlds and experiencing the life state of Buddhahood through practicing correct faith-- in each of these 10 worlds, including , Hell, is the greatest benefit, in my humble opinion.

    I do not practice as Nichiren taught out of fear, or the threat of the pains of the life state of Hell, I practice to correctly perceive my life and all of life's functions, so that I will never be swayed by FEAR !

    I strongly suggest that you, Anonymous, are discarding *Nichiren* with NO idea of what you are saying-- I have pity for you, and anyone who cannot help but act out of ignorance, but since you came here to make your proclamation-- there is really no excuse for your remaining in the dark.

    If you are courageous enough to embrace Myoho-Renge-Kyo and seek Nichiren's own teachings as your guide for developing faith, I am confident you will quickly perceive your errors.

    Best,
    ~Katie




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    1. Nice touch Katie, your inclusive response was much better than my "exclusive" response! Thank you. I learned. :)

      On a related note, this is what I love about this forum, it's diversity of voices and thus the opportunity to learn. Thank you to all and to Mark for making it possible!

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  6. Hell's Bells!!

    Let's not forget that Myoho-Renge-Kyo is the *fusion of wisdom and reality*-- and that "Hell is the Land of Tranquil Light" when viewed from the reality of the mutual possession of the ten worlds.

    Just saying--
    ~Katie



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    1. Hell (Devadatta)

      "+ Really understanding what the state of hell feels like can lead to the desire and wisdom to help others.

      - Ultimately is a life state of suffering, illustrated by depression, despair and self-destructive tendencies."

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  7. This comment was meant as a response to Noel's dissertation :"All hells, right here, right now." --

    No challenge to the Gosho quotes as to their authenticity and veracity--- but think that CONTEXt is key, especially when one is compassionately correcting the errors of a non-believer...

    In my humble opinion,
    ~Katie

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    1. Compassion is equally important to all whether we consider them to be believer or non believer

      After all who controls the standard that we judge if not one another's interpretation of a questionable standard

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    2. Noel, Here, We are talking about teachings from Nichren's writings and the Lotus Sutra as the standard, and neither is questionable in my mind, nor subject to interpretation-

      However, disagreements may arise on how specific teachings do or do not apply to a topic being discussed. My sharing on this post was strictly to reorient toward the *correct* view of Hell as it is taught by Nichiren-- and doing so because of the deep confusion that exists regarding this term as it is understood in a predominantly judea-christian influenced society.

      I sense you are taking issue with my correcting your use of Gosho regarding a non-believer's confusion? It is my humble opinion, Noel, offered in good faith--

      Though you claim to be a *believer* we are often at odds, you and I on the meaning of the word, "believe"-- It seems you want to interpret, argue and push an agenda that supports the doctrinal errors committed by Nichiren Shoshu, Nichiren Shu and the SGI--. Idon't really want to *go there*-- but I am reasonably sure you know to what I am referring--

      I already know that your *superiotiy* based on your claims to *perceiving* what none of us here has the capacity for will render you unlikely to reflect on the teachings and admit errors-- Likewise, the preceding explanation that you yourself have posted o tihs site, renders you {in your own mind] capable of judging standards and interpreting the teachings of the Buddha in your own way-- and on a regular basis, stating something to the effect of , "You [Katie] lack compassion-- "etc,..

      I am nowhere near perfect -- so in your quest to admonish me, I am sure there will always be something you grab hold of--

      But, maybe-- just maybe--- for once, you will admonish yourself FIRST !

      ~Katie








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    3. "This comment was meant as a response to Noel's dissertation :"All hells, right here, right now." --

      "No challenge to the Gosho quotes as to their authenticity and veracity--- but think that CONTEXt is key, especially when one is compassionately correcting the errors of a non-believer..."


      The point that I was making with Mudpie about his statement "All hells, right here, right now." was that Hell not only exists in the here and now as he stated and is in line with the teachings but also in the after life as Nichiren stated in the Gosho that I quoted.

      You criticise what you understand as doctrinal errors of Nichiren Shoshu, Nichiren Shu and the SGI but cant see the errors of your own ways.

      Its about time you had a good hard look at yourself for a change and get your own act together before you start criticising others

      But as usual you have to get on your high horse and blow it up into something else to deride another. So much for your humble opinions, just the fact that you keep on saying "In my humble opinion",shows how conceited you are

      "But, maybe-- just maybe--- for once, you will admonish yourself FIRST !"

      Take your own advice Katie before pointing the finger at others and perhaps then you'll become capable of taking what is said in CONTEXT and this also applies to Nichiren's teachings that you have failed to grasp but act as though you have attained what you have not. Only those that don't know any better could be fooled by you

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    4. "Noel, Here, We are talking about teachings from Nichren's writings and the Lotus Sutra as the standard, and neither is questionable in my mind, nor subject to interpretation-"

      Ok why are there so many sects and independent scholars with a different take on it

      If you think that Nichiren's teachings and the Lotus Sutra are not questionable, or subject to interpretation why are their so many different commentaries on the same scriptures that raise questions.

      You must really have a small mind if you think it all stops with your shallow view, you've hardly scratched the surface yet. You still have a long way to go but don't give up and stay with-it as you may eventually get it.

      Its encouraging for me to have seen some improvement in your attitude and willingness to broaden your understanding of the teachings since you came on to the Eagle Peak blog.

      However you classify your self as a believer and so rightly you are but only to the capacity of you present day comprehension. You and Stavros the unbeliever are both in the same rickety boat as far as awareness of what the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren teachings reveal but what I say will only fall on deaf ears unless you both have realisations for yourselves. So I leave you with these golden words of the Buddha to reflect upon

      "At that time the Buddha spoke once more to the bodhisattva and Mahasattva Medicine King, saying: "The sutras I have preached number immeasurable thousands, ten thousands millions, among the sutras I have preached, now preach, and will preach, *this Lotus Sutra is the most difficult to believe and the most difficult to understand*.

      Medicine King, this sutra is the storehouse of the secret crux of the Buddhas, it must not be distributed recklessly transmitted to others.

      It has been guarded by the Buddhas, the World-Honored Ones, and from times past until now has never been openly expounded, and since hatred and jealousy toward this sutra abound even when the Thus Come One is in the world, how much more will this be so after his passing?

      Chapter Ten: The Teacher of the Law

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    5. So- looks like Noel " unplugged " /

      There were 8 other schools/sects during Nichiren's time who claimed to " understand " the Lotus Sutra. Mark posted Nichiren's refutations of each - from " The Opening of the Eyes"

      Nichiren realized that the same situation was inevitable with regard to his teachings and sure enough three are, as you say, many divergent opinions and practices of sects claiming to be *correct" followers of Nichiren. However, the literlists, who take their guidance from Nichiren the scripturlist, appear more closely in accordance with Nichiren's example - even to the point of not belonging to any "sect"

      I would also argue that amongst the Indepents are those who have endured persecution from SGI & society . I am amongst this group.

      Thanks !
      ~Katie

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    6. Appear more closely in accordance with Nichirens example" ???

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    7. Nichiren adhered strictly to the Lotus Sutra. His example is that of a *bodily reading* of Shakyamuni's highest teaching. Nichiren exemplified his reverence for Shakyamuni Buddha constantly referring to the debt of gratitude we owe this Buddha, as he, Nichren demonstrated through his unfaltering devotion to upholding the Lotus Sutra.

      "For What I have done, I have been condemned to exile, but it is a small suffering to undergo in this present life and not one worth lamenting. In future lives I will enjoy immense happiness, a thought that gives me great joy." ("The Opening of The Eyes "II)

      "Although I and my disciples may encounter great difficulties, if we do not harbor doubts in or hearts, we will as a matter of course attain Buddhahood. Do not harbor doubts simply because heaven does not lend you protection. Do not be discouraged because you do not enjoy an easy and secure existence in this life. This is what I have taught my disciples morning and evening, and yet they begin to harbor doubts and abandon their faith." ("The Opening of The Eyes II)

      Nichiren taught that those who practiced as he did would definitely encounter hatred, jealousy-- truly agonizing ordeals. To continue to uphold the Lotus Sutra, even at the cost of one's life, is practicing in accordance with Nichiren's example.

      In this day and age losing one's career, when one is the main breadwinner of a household is tantamount to losing *one's life*- and one's *good reputation* and incurring animosity from one's family--- This can happen when one upholds the Lotus Sutra, and does not desist despite the dire consequences and agonizing ordeals.

      In this day and age one can incur hatred from people who implore authority[government/public service employees] figures to punish one for upholding the teachings of Nichiren and the Lotus Sutra. If one does not desist, despite the dire consequences, one will encounter truly agonizing ordeals.

      When one does not desist in upholding the Lotus Sutra, declaring the truth exactly as Nichiren taught, despite the losses one incurs and the suffering caused in every realm of one's life, one will experience the benefit of purifying one's life and will without fail receive immeasurable blessings. Just as the Buddha taught, and just as Nichiren proved, and shared in his writings, his teachings for practicing the Lotus Sutra in this latter age.

      In my humble opinion, Mark Rogow practices in accordance with Nichiren's example. I say this partly because of what I, myself, recognize as embodying the spirit of Nichiren and what I, myself, have experienced as actual proof of the importance of doing my best to refute the erroneous teachings of slanderous sects, who call themselves, "Nichiren Buddhists". In other words, I have followed his example with undeniable beneficial results.

      In my humble opinion, literally, Noel--, one who gains the experience practicing as Nichiren did, one does not consider other interpretations of Nichiren's teachings, but that the Buddha's teachings and Nichiren's bodily reading of the Lotus Sutra themselves are 100% true.

      I use the term *my humble opinion* to reflect what "I" have heard, understand, believe and practice to the best of my ability. I am not a Buddha -- but that does not believe I doubt my own experience.

      ~Katie

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    8. correction "that does not *mean* I doubt my own experience.

      ~Katie

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    11. I have been bodily suffering from karmic retribution in the form of a very sore back in which I became immobilised at times for the last six weeks, much better than falling into Hell according to what Nichiren says in this Gosho. Hopefully some of my evil karma is about to be dissipated.

      We all have to watch out for 3 obstacles and 4 devils that become stronger the more closer to the truth we become

      Taken in context of this part of the Gosho I relate to my condition and hope you can you can to rather than just another boring dissertation

      "I SEE from your letter that you have been stricken with a painful affliction. On the one hand, knowing that you are in agony grieves me, but on the other, I am delighted.

      The Vimalakīrti Sutra states: “At that time the wealthy Vimalakīrti thought to himself, ‘I am ill, lying on my bed, [yet why does the World-Honored One, man of great compassion, not take pity on me]?’ . . . At that time the Buddha said to Manjushrī, ‘Go visit Vimalakīrti, and inquire after his illness.’”

      The Nirvana Sutra says, “At that time the Thus Come One . . . assumed the appearance of one who is ill in body and lay on his right side like a sick man.”

      The Lotus Sutra states, “[The Thus Come One is well and happy], with few ills and few worries.” The eighth volume of Great Concentration and Insight states: “Vimalakīrti lay on his sickbed in Vaishālī, making his illness a pretext to promote the teachings . . . Through his death, the Thus Come One taught the eternity [of life], and through illness, the power [of Buddhism].”

      It also says: “There are six causes of illness: (1) disharmony of the four elements; (2) improper eating or drinking; (3) inappropriate practice of seated meditation; (4) attack by demons; (5) the work of devils; and (6) the effects of karma.”

      The Nirvana Sutra reads: “There are three types of people whose illness is extremely difficult to cure.

      The first is those who slander the great vehicle; the second, those who commit the five cardinal sins; and the third, icchantikas, or persons of incorrigible disbelief. These three categories of illness are the gravest in the world.”

      It also states: “One who creates evil karma in this life... will surely suffer in hell.... But by making offerings to the three treasures, one avoids falling into hell and receives the retribution in this life, in the form of afflictions of the head, eye, or *back.”

      Great Concentration and Insight states, “Even if one has committed grave offenses... the retribution can be lessened in this life. Thus, illness occurs when evil karma is about to be dissipated.”

      In his Treatise on the Great Perfection of Wisdom, Bodhisattva Nāgārjuna says: “Question:... [Answer]: If that is so, then none of the sutras, from the Flower Garland to the Wisdom sutras, is a secret teaching, but the Lotus Sutra is secret.... [The Lotus Sutra is] like a great physician who can change poison into medicine.” T’ien-t’ai explained the quotation further, saying: “This can be likened to a skilled physician who can change poison into medicine.... That persons of the two vehicles were given the prophecy of their enlightenment in this sutra means that it can change poison into medicine. This is what Great Perfection of Wisdom means when it says, ‘The various sutras are not secret teachings; only the Lotus Sutra is secret.’”


      Great Concentration and Insight says, “The Lotus Sutra can cure them [illnesses], which is why it is called myō, or wonderful.” Miao-lo says, “Because it can cure what is thought to be incurable, it is called myō, or wonderful.”

      On Curing Karmic Disease

      Delete
  8. I believe there are many Nichiren sects with various interpretations, not because if the difficulty of understanding the Lotus Sutra [because Nichiren thoroughly explained the Lotus Sutra] but rather because of the Three Poisons, particularly greed and ego. Each sect changed the teachings in order to separate itself from the others and therefore to acquire more converts, money, and land. SGI is the glaring modern example and the glaring ancient example is the Nichiren Shoshu.

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  9. Good point Mark, however if our understanding of the Lotus Sutra that Nichiren explained has been affected by the Three poisons particularly stupidity or ignorance as in the case of independent practicioners, that aren't looking for money, converts and land it will be our loss

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  10. I would say, when it comes to the Lotus Sutra, I am egoless and ascetic, not relying on the Lotus Sutra for sustenance, unlike the poisoned priests and leaders of the various sects.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Huh? Are you saying that you don't rely on the Lotus Sutra for sustenance unlike the poisoned priests and leaders of the various sects that do rely on the Lotus Sutra for sustenance

    ReplyDelete
  12. More about your errors, Noel--

    "The Blessings of The Lotus sutra", Nichiren states:

    " I, Nichiren am not the founder of any school, nor am I a latter day follower of any older school. I am a priest without precepts, neither keeping the precepts or breaking them. i am an ordinary creature like an ox or a sheep, who is neither particularly wise nor ignorant."

    "Why did I first begin to chant as I do? Bodhisattva Superior Practices is the one destined to make his advent in this world to propagate the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo. But before he had even appeared, I began as though speaking in a dream, hardly aware of what i was doing, to utter the words Namu-myoho-renge-kyo, and so I chant them now. In the end, is this a good thing I do, or is it a bad thing? I do not know, nor can anyone else tell for certain."

    "But when I open the Lotus sutra and reverently peruse it, I see that even the bodhisattva Manjushri, Maitreya, Perceiver of the World's Sounds, and Universal Worthy, who had reached the stage of near-perfect enlightenment, were scarcely able to uphold so much as a single verse of this sutra, because the sutra itself states that it can "only be understood and shared between Buddhas."

    Noel, you have often slighted *independent practitioners* above , you wrote: :>>" affected by the Three poisons particularly stupidity or ignorance as in the case of independent practitioners,<<"

    I can't help but wonder how your self-serving practice differs from the teachings of the various Nichiren sects who also profit by propagating teachings that satisfy the minds of common mortals who are seeking to ease there own personal discomforts.

    Clearly, anyone who studies Nichiren writings knows that Nichiren did not seek nor teach a *practice for personal comfort/gain*. Nichiren did not tell his disciples to expect pleasant circumstances. Yet, you, in your response to my answering your question about practitioners who *appear more in accordance with Nichiren's teachings*, relate your own experience of diagnosing and treating your *back pain*--.

    "I have been bodily suffering from karmic retribution in the form of a very sore back in which I became immobilised at times for the last six weeks, much better than falling into Hell according to what Nichiren says in this Gosho. Hopefully some of my evil karma is about to be dissipated."

    "Taken in context of this part of the Gosho I relate to my condition and hope you can you can to rather than just another boring dissertation ."

    Sparing you another of my "boring dissertations", I will simply caution you regarding slighting sincere followers of Nichiren via your *ignorant* remarks and also remind you that the Buddha did not sugar coat his admonishments against *slandering believers in the Lotus Sutra*, many of which you have quoted on this site.

    You are cherry picking teachings from various sects, Noel-- ALL of which are lesser teachings. I hope you will ponder what Nichiren himself taught via his own example, as this is the surest way to put an end to creating negative karma.

    ~Katie

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    Replies
    1. "I will simply caution you regarding slighting sincere followers of Nichiren via your *ignorant* remarks and also remind you that the Buddha did not sugar coat his admonishments against *slandering believers in the Lotus Sutra*, many of which you have quoted on this site.

      You are cherry picking teachings from various sects, Noel-- ALL of which are lesser teachings. I hope you will ponder what Nichiren himself taught via his own example, as this is the surest way to put an end to creating negative karma."

      All that you have written applies to yourself as it does to us all

      Don't loose sight of the fingers pointing back at yourself while making your assertions unless you are too blind to see

      Delete
    2. I don't follow the teachings of any self -proclaimed, Nichiren *sect*, Noel.

      I have made assertions in instances where you are either supporting sectarian teachings, like, Nichiren Shu, or even Nichiren Shoshu- , mixed in with your own *mind revelations*.
      Your responses to me indicate you view me as having a diminished capacity, again-- coming from your professing to have attained the ability to * directly perceive the True Entity", presumably through meditation.

      I could, as iainx has done on ARBN with *Chas*, pull out the threads where you have made the statements regarding the issues I am raising with you, again-- But, since I am not invested in winning a debate with you, or revealing your shady tactics to *readers* here, I will simply remind you of *the ground we have already covered*.

      The bottom line, Noel is that your assertions are not grounded in the literal teachings of Nichiren. As the title of this post asserts,
      "Nichiren was a scriptural Buddhist"-- This, is what you refuse to accept. Totally your right to do so--- though, I caution you to avoid slighting Independent practitioners of Nichirens' Lotus Sutra Buddhism , for your own sake--

      Best,
      ~Katie

      Delete
    3. "Clearly, anyone who studies Nichiren writings knows that Nichiren did not seek nor teach a *practice for personal comfort/gain*. Nichiren did not tell his disciples to expect pleasant circumstances"


      When one comes to the end of one’s good fortune, no strategy whatsoever avails. When one’s karmic rewards are exhausted, even one’s retainers no longer follow one. You survived because you still have both good fortune and rewards. Moreover, in the “Entrustment” chapter,1 the heavenly gods and benevolent deities pledged to protect the votaries of the Lotus Sutra. Of all the guardian deities in heaven, it is the gods of the sun and moon who visibly protect us. How can we doubt their protection?


      You must have escaped death because of this deity’s protection. Marīchi gave you skill in swordsmanship, while I, Nichiren, have bestowed on you the five characters of the title of the Lotus Sutra. There can be no doubt that Marīchi protects those who embrace the Lotus Sutra. Marīchi also upholds the Lotus Sutra and helps all living beings. Even the words “Those who join the battle are all in the front lines”2 derive from the Lotus Sutra. This is what is meant by the passage “If they should expound some text of the secular world or speak on matters of government or occupations that sustain life, they will in all cases conform to the correct Law.”3 Therefore, you must summon up the great power of faith more than ever. Do not blame the heavenly gods if you exhaust your good fortune and lose their protection.

      Masakado was renowned as a brave general who had mastered the art of war, yet he was defeated by the armies under the emperor’s command. Even Fan K’uai and Chang Liang had their failures. It is the heart that is important. No matter how earnestly Nichiren prays for you, if you lack faith, it will p.1001be like trying to set fire to wet tinder. Spur yourself to muster the power of faith. Regard your survival as wondrous. Employ the strategy of the Lotus Sutra before any other. “All others who bear you enmity or malice will likewise be wiped out.”4 These golden words will never prove false. The heart of strategy and swordsmanship derives from the Mystic Law. Have profound faith. A coward cannot have any of his prayers answered.

      The strategy of the Lotus Sutra

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      Delete
    5. "Your responses to me indicate you view me as having a diminished capacity,"

      Katie I believe in your potential. The fog will eventually lift that is clouding your vision unless you refuse to give up some of your provisional interpretations of the literal teachings of Nichiren which is acting more like a ball and chain from what I've so far seen of your resistance to go beyond your self imposed conceptual prison

      Delete
    6. Your perceptions, Noel; the most troubling one is your unrelenting arrogance!

      " unless you refuse to give up some of your provisional interpretations of the literal teachings of Nichiren which is acting more like a ball and chain from what I've so far seen of your resistance to go beyond your self imposed conceptual prison."

      Waxing a bit grandiose for someone who, himself, is still stuck in this threefold world !

      In my humble opinion,
      ~Katie

      Delete
    7. "The bottom line, Noel is that your assertions are not grounded in the literal teachings of Nichiren.

      (Again your interpretation of the literal teachings of Nichiren.)


      As the title of this post asserts,

      "Nichiren was a scriptural Buddhist"-- This, is what you refuse to accept. Totally your right to do so--- though, I caution you to avoid slighting Independent practitioners of Nichirens' Lotus Sutra Buddhism , for your own sake" (again take your own advice)

      I consider what you say as more of a threat than a humble opinion


      Katite you are only fooling yourself if you think that your opinions are meek, deferential, respectful, submissive, self-effacing, unassertive, unpresuming, modest, · unassuming, self-deprecating which happen to be what humble means

      Give it up girl and stop hiding your arrogance behind humbleness it just doesn't work because its not what you are OK!

      Delete
    8. Katie "If you care about my salvation and I am making a serious error or committing a serious slander, then you should correct me but you had better have some clear passages of proof to back up your assertions." Mark Rogow

      Delete
    9. "Give it up girl and stop hiding your arrogance behind humbleness it just doesn't work because its not what you are OK! "

      I think you confusing my strong convictions in the *greatness* of Nichiren's teachings and the Lotus Sutra with my personal identity-- I am a mere follower, and a woman, Noel, so when I state my convictions based on Nichiren's writings, I reference my actual identity when calling them *my humble opinion*.

      I cannot help the way *you perceive* my convictions, nor am I inclined to defend myself against *your* assessments of my comments or me, for that matter. That you choose to continue employing *your perceptions* in this manner is more indicative of your own arrogance-- a few of the 9 types exhibited in this thread, in my humble opinion.

      Noel, what is this? <<"Katie "If you care about my salvation and I am making a serious error or committing a serious slander, then you should correct me but you had better have some clear passages of proof to back up your assertions." Mark Rogow<<"

      Are you following Mark, now?

      In any case there are many references on this site to my *correcting YOU* with clear passages of proof from Nichiren's writings, and Mark doing the same--.

      So, I am not taking your *bait*, Noel-- "Katite you are only fooling yourself if you think that your opinions are meek, deferential, respectful, submissive, self-effacing, unassertive, unpresuming, modest, · unassuming, self-deprecating which happen to be what humble means

      Give it up girl and stop hiding your arrogance behind humbleness it just doesn't work because its not what you are OK! <<"

      I am not a *Bull*-- just a humble, sincere, follower of Nichiren!

      Be well :-)
      ~Katie

      Delete
    10. "I am not a *Bull*-- just a humble, sincere, follower of Nichiren!"

      We are like many other followers or wanabee followers of Nichiren each have their own unique strange way

      Tcare

      Delete

    11. Noel, what is this? <<"Katie "If you care about my salvation and I am making a serious error or committing a serious slander, then you should correct me but you had better have some clear passages of proof to back up your assertions." Mark Rogow<<

      "I have made assertions in instances where you are either supporting sectarian teachings, like, Nichiren Shu, or even Nichiren Shoshu- , mixed in with your own *mind revelations*.

      Are you following Mark, now?"

      Mark has always been part of the mix and without his contribution it would be a very poor mix indeed!

      Delete
    12. "I cannot help the way *you perceive* my convictions, nor am I inclined to defend myself against *your* assessments of my comments or me, for that matter. That you choose to continue employing *your perceptions* in this manner is more indicative of your own arrogance-- a few of the 9 types exhibited in this thread, in my humble opinion"

      You can employ your perceptions, your assessments of others but remain beyond arrogance unlike those you deem arrogant.

      How can you see yourself if you don't reflect, that's why others can help us see ourselves even if we don't want to admit what they are seeing could be true

      A humble opinion will speak for itself, it doesn't need to be announced

      Self appraise is no recommendation in most situations

      Tcare

      Delete
    13. Thanks, for clarifying, Noel,

      "Mark has always been part of the *MIX and without his contribution it would be a very poor mix indeed! "

      * see: "Letter To Akimoto"

      ~Katie

      ~Katie


      Delete
    14. Many times I have requested you to look things up and you have always refused.

      Why should I do as you say. Just get to the point of what it is you want to say and be done with it,thanks very much all the same

      Delete
    15. Many times I have requested you to look things up and you have always refused.

      Why should I do as you say. Just get to the point of what it is you want to say and be done with it,thanks very much all the same

      Delete
    16. I have opened your links and read your own postings of "things you requested I look up", Noel-- and always found them to be interesting though not directly linked to Nichiren's very clear and well- referenced with scripture, teachings. So, again, you are making my point for me-- clarifying the barriers to your accepting pretty much anything I share directly from the Gosho--

      I am not insisting that you "do as I say"-- merely providing the reference material I consider the only standard for practicing Nichiren's Buddhism. "Letter to Akimoto" - if you read it and believe it-- then my intention is fulfilled :-)

      I have said before, based on Nichiren's writings :*mind revelations*-- that you experience as a result of practicing meditation NOT taught by Nichiren (with plenty of good reasons cited by him) , and bringing in what you *like* about other practices is diluting and defiling the Buddha's teachings-- and absolutely must influence your perceptions to a very large degree-

      On ARBN there is an excellent post by iainx on practicing with single minded focus and faith in the Law--. Very practical and very profound at the same time, it actually motivated my husband to reflect on his Gakkai indoctrination -- (chanting with the focus of one's desires and worries) Lo and behold, he started to implement ianix's suggestions-- .

      The Dragon King's Daughter attained enlightenment-- and the miracle of this is lost to anyone who hasn't seen an ex-SGI member break free of that pervasive cult influence--

      The boy Snow Mountain recognized the Law even though it came from the mouth of a demon-- perhaps the mind expressed in the writings of a woman is as worthy of attention?

      ~just saying--
      ~Katie

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    17. Here's the link to a VERY informative, practical approach to practicing Nichiren's Lotus Sutra Buddhism with the Single mind of faith--

      https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/eHcyy2dj-Ac

      Best,
      ~Katie

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    18. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    19. "I have said before, based on Nichiren's writings :*mind revelations*-- that you experience as a result of practicing meditation NOT taught by Nichiren (with plenty of good reasons cited by him) , and bringing in what you *like* about other practices is diluting and defiling the Buddha's teachings-- and absolutely must influence your perceptions to a very large degree"- Katie


      "What Zen Buddhism claims is “zazen” as though it were something special and
      unique to them is almost wholly derived from Shikan meditation as taught and
      practiced by the Great Master T’ien-t’ai (aka Chih-i). The Great Concentration
      and Insight, the Essentials of Buddhist Meditation, the Six Dharma Gates, and
      other meditation manuals by Chih-i are all about shikan meditation.


      Shi Kan is simply the Sino-Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese characters for the
      Sanskrit “shamatha vipashyana.” Chih-i explains this meditation on the basis of
      Mahayana Buddhism and particularly the perspective of the Lotus Sutra when it is
      practiced in the manner of Endon Shikan (Sudden and Perfect Tranquility and
      Insight). In fact, in Nichiren Shu we ministers sometimes chant the Endon Shikan
      which is a brief passage from the preface of the Great Concentration and Insight
      extolling the wonder and perfection and sublimity of this form of meditation.

      Shikan meditation has its roots in the Four Foundations of Mindful Discourse
      that Vipassana meditation and in fact all forms of genuine Buddhist meditation
      trace back to. But again, the crucial difference is that the practice has been
      raised to the level of Endon (Sudden and Perfect) which is to say the level of
      the Lotus Sutra. It is by practicing Shikan that in the T’ien-t’ai teachings of
      the Great Concentration and Insight one awakens to the Unity of the Three Truths
      and/or the Three Thousand Worlds in a Single Thought Moment.

      Now it can be argued, and some scholars have begun arguing, that Zen (or Ch’an)
      owes a LOT to the T’ien-t’ai teachings on meditation. In reading Chih-i’s
      meditation manuals I now see that there is very very little that Zen can claim
      for its own in terms of method or ideology that cannot actually be found in
      Chih-i’s teaching and practice.


      Nowadays I believe that intellectual property
      lawsuits might even be filed against those claiming a special practice called
      “zazen” that is in fact simply a repackaging of Chih-i’s “shikan” which in
      itself is simply Chih-i’s setting forth of the actual teaching and practice of
      meditation according to Shakyamuni Buddha himself."

      cont..

      Delete
    20. Now Nichiren in his early years said that those who could practice Shikan and
      realize the Three Thousand Worlds in a Single Thought-Moment should do so, but
      others without the training or ability should simply chant Odaimoku and that the
      merit would be the same. He later argued against those in the Tendai school who
      claimed that Shikan could lead to a realization superior to that expressed in
      the Lotus Sutra. Yet, Nichiren never told those who could not to do shikan
      practice and in fact he lectured on the Great Concentration and Insight until
      the end of his life and there are indications in gosho written on Mt. Minobu
      that he may have continued the practice himself among his monastic followers. In
      Nichiren Shu today more often than not the practice of shikan is part of
      Shodaigyo meditation, though that practice only goes back to the 1950′s.

      I think that shikan has a place in Nichiren Shu as a supporting practice
      alongside things like walking meditation, sutra copying, Buddha-image copying,
      and so on (or even extra-curricular activities like martial arts, yoga, flower
      arranging, etc…). Zazen, however, should not be part of our practice and it
      need not be because shikan is everything that Zen Buddhism claims for zazen and
      in fact more – because we hold to the original teachings and practice of Chih-i
      which is more holistic and less rhetorical and idealistic than Zen and also
      because we practice shikan in the context of Namu Myoho Renge Kyo.

      Shikan, though legitimately part of our tradition, should is not mandatory but
      only an option for those with the inclination and ability for it. Nichiren said
      that Odaimoku alone contains the same merit and Kanjin Honzon Sho is all abut
      how the Odaimoku is itself a form of Kanjin or Seeing the Mind – which is the
      whole point of Endon Shikan. Shikan should not be put on the same level as
      Odaimoku because it is the practice of ri-no-ichinen sanzen whereas Odaimoku is
      the practice of ji-no-ichinen sanzen. Ri-no-ichinen sanzen means that in
      principle if we sit still and quiet the mind (shikan actually encompasses much
      more than this but lets not get into that now) we will perceive the Three
      Thousand Worlds in a Single Thought-Moment. Ji-no-ichinen sanzen, however, means
      that in actuality the Three Thousand Worlds in a Single Thought-Moment are
      manifest – in particular Buddhahood expresses itself in the here and now. In our
      tradition Odaimoku is not a practice by which we attempt to perceive Buddhahood
      within but rather a form of actual expression of Buddhahood here and now.

      The bottom line for me, as a Nichiren Shu minister, is this – shikan is an
      optional supporting practice in Nichiren Shu, not zazen. Those who don’t want to
      get into it need not and don’t have to fear that they are missing anything as
      long as they continue to uphold the primary essential practice of Namu Myoho
      Renge Kyo. Those who do wish to practice shikan should of course do so – just as
      those who chant Odaimoku may wish to take up other helpful practice like sutra
      copying or vegetarianism or yoga.

      Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
      Ryuei

      Delete

    21. "Shikan, though legitimately part of our tradition, should is not mandatory but only an option for those with the inclination and ability for it.

      Nichiren said that Odaimoku alone contains the same merit and Kanjin Honzon Sho is all abut how the Odaimoku is itself a form of Kanjin or Seeing the Mind – which is the whole point of Endon Shikan.

      Shikan should not be put on the same level as Odaimoku because it is the practice of ri-no-ichinen sanzen whereas Odaimoku is the practice of ji-no-ichinen sanzen.

      Ri-no-ichinen sanzen means that in principle if we sit still and quiet the mind (shikan actually encompasses much more than this but lets not get into that now) we will perceive the Three Thousand Worlds in a Single Thought-Moment.

      Ji-no-ichinen sanzen, however, means that in actuality the Three Thousand Worlds in a Single Thought-Moment are manifest – in particular Buddhahood expresses itself in the here and now.

      In our tradition Odaimoku is not a practice by which we attempt to perceive Buddhahood within but rather a form of actual expression of Buddhahood here and now.

      Now Nichiren in his early years said that those who could practice Shikan and realize the Three Thousand Worlds in a Single Thought-Moment should do so, but others without the training or ability should simply chant Odaimoku and that the merit would be the same.

      He later argued against those in the Tendai school who claimed that Shikan could lead to a realization superior to that expressed in the Lotus Sutra.

      Yet, Nichiren never told those who could not to do shikan practice and in fact he lectured on the Great Concentration and Insight until the end of his life and there are indications in gosho written on Mt. Minobu that he may have continued the practice himself among his monastic followers

      Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
      Ryuei

      Delete
    22. "Yet, Nichiren never told those who could not to do shikan practice and in fact he lectured on the Great Concentration and Insight until the end of his life and there are indications in gosho written on Mt. Minobu that he may have continued the practice himself among his monastic followers"

      This was obviously *preached* by a priest who has your respect as a disciple of Nichiren? Yet, since I have no such relationship with the priest, I find it difficult to *take his word* on a matter as profound as this--

      When he says "Nichiren lectures", I wonder if he means someone recorded his lecture? as opposed to Nichiren's own writings verifying this claim? That is suspect -- to me.

      "Indications" of Nichiren's practice, imo do not qualify as *teachings*-- IF Nichiren did not write it, it is not a teaching of Nichiren's, imo.

      So-- I don;" believe this preaching-- it lacks what I require for *belief* that it is in fact a teaching of Nichiren's.

      Additionally, this preaching does not accord with the Major Writings that have been authenticated as Nichiren's own teachings--

      I urge you to be cautious in using this preaching as a standard for your practice.

      Best,
      ~Katie

      Delete
    23. "This was obviously *preached* by a priest who has your respect as a disciple of Nichiren? Yet, since I have no such relationship with the priest, I find it difficult to *take his word* on a matter as profound as this--"

      Put the title priest to one side and think of him as another person like yourself who has a view of Nichiren Buddhism that is different from your current interpretation of Nichiren's words and then perhaps you may learn something outside of the square

      Delete



    24. "Put the title priest to one side and think of him as another person like yourself who has a view of Nichiren Buddhism "

      Nichiren, himself, was clear, Noel regarding forming one's own views of Buddhism. On this, and every teaching, Nichiren referenced the sutra. "Rely on the Law, not upon persons" - Nichire was a *scriptual Buddhist*. The view I maintain is "belief" in what Nichiren himself wrote [here we get into authenticating his writings, which involves a process that Nichiren *wrote* about as well]. My faith develops as I experience greater actual proof of Nichiren's teachings- but it always starts with "belief".

      " different from your current interpretation of Nichiren's words "

      I don''t *interpret* Nichiren's words . I "believe" them.

      "and then perhaps you may learn something outside of the square."

      The way I interpret these words of yours, Noel, is that you are referring to Nichiren as, "the square"-- . My view, then would be that one should never go outside of "the square" --

      You are referring to Nichiren's Buddhism, right? Well, he wrote the ONLY book on it -- in my view. :-)

      ~Katie







      Delete
    25. "The way I interpret these words of yours, Noel, is that you are referring to Nichiren as, "the square"-- . My view, then would be that one should never go outside of "the square"

      I'm referring to a limited interpretation of Nichiren's teaching as being trapped in a square with bars or being boxed in by some backward erroneous, and provisional beliefs that stop us from growing into full realisation of Myoho Renge Kyo

      If your happy with your present day beliefs for today, then that is something at least that comforts you and gives relative happiness.

      We are all in the same boat on that one so your certainly not alone, however it is good that we can agree on some of Nichiren's teachings in the same way that all the other sects and independents do

      Delete
    26. "I'm referring to a limited interpretation of Nichiren's teaching as being trapped in a square with bars or being boxed in by some backward erroneous, and provisional beliefs that stop us from growing into full realisation of Myoho Renge Kyo "

      Noel, are you including me in your use of "us"? If so, I need some clarification on the "backward erroneous, and provisional beliefs" you claim I am "trapped in"--

      "If your happy with your present day beliefs for today, then that is something at least that comforts you and gives relative happiness"

      As for this statement of yours: Again, YOU seem to conclude that I experience only *relative happiness* > How do you know this to be the case? Or rather, why would you assume to know that my happiness is *relative * and based on *provisonal teachings"?

      My experience shared here and elsewhere is about the benefit of believing Nichiren to the point of acting as he did for the sake of the Lotus Sutra, being hated, banished , persecuted--(by strict definition- receiving severe punishment for having done the *right* thing. Then, through more strenuous devotion to practice and study, developing the capacity for forbearance, which is not the same as merely *enduring* suffering, but shining with hope and courage through the ordeal "This" BTW inspired 5 of my nursing colleagues to stand up with me against corrupt authority . Actual proof is the profound joy from the Law that I experience-- again and again-- in connection with actual victories .
      I would share MY view of Nichiren's Buddhism like this :

      Nichiren's practice was a "bodily reading of the Lotus Sutra" chronicled in detail throughout his lifetime in the Gosho. My practice is a *bodily reading of Nichiren's teachings"--My experience completely concurs with Nichiren's-- i.e; "I am the richest man in all of Japan"--

      I am the richest woman in the U.S.-because of my faith in Myoho-renge-kyo ; otherwise I appear to be quite ordinary and prone to incur hardships and agonizing ordeals.

      I have suggested that your claim to having a *peaceful* serene, happy state of life is a transient phenomena resulting from the lesser teaching of *meditation* -- or a *zen-like* delusion.
      I think some people are prone to mistaking this state for enlightenment--

      ~Katie




      Delete

    27. "I have suggested that your claim to having a *peaceful* serene, happy state of life is a transient phenomena resulting from the lesser teaching of *meditation* -- or a *zen-like* delusion.

      I think some people are prone to mistaking this state for enlightenment-- "

      Like these guys for example

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J7MVbb64aA

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    28. "Noel, are you including me in your use of "us"? If so, I need some clarification on the "backward erroneous, and provisional beliefs" you claim I am "trapped in"--"

      Go back to where you refer to my interpretation of what Nichiren relates to as the ancient primordial eternal Shakyamuni Buddha Thus come one ,3 bodied Tathagatta Musa Sanjin Buddha as esoteric crap

      Delete
    29. "As for this statement of yours: Again, YOU seem to conclude that I experience only *relative happiness* > How do you know this to be the case? Or rather, why would you assume to know that my happiness is *relative * and based on *provisonal teachings"?

      Because I know that you don't know from what you have so far expressed through your writings

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    30. Noel; I'm referring to a limited interpretation of Nichiren's teaching as being trapped in a square with bars or being boxed in by some backward erroneous, and provisional beliefs that stop us from growing into full realisation of Myoho Renge Kyo "

      Katie; are you including me in your use of "us"?

      Of course Katie why of all people would I leave you out? Once again your not alone.

      We are all in the same boat on that one so your certainly not alone, however it is good that we can agree on some of Nichiren's teachings in the same way that all the other sects and independents do and agree to disagree
      Nam/u Myoho Lenge Kyo

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    31. I think I can clarify where I am coming from with this quote of your experience chanting to Gohonzon:

      "Yes that's right,one too many red wines and past my bed time effected my judgment. This Gohonzon is very powerful I must of nodded off this morning while I was chanting and shifted into a state where I experienced a blissful joy and ecstasy that rivaled any psychedelic drug or transcendental state through yoga and meditation that I've had in the past The exulted states are described in Buddhism as the eternal unchanging, blissful, pure Self , knows of no beginning or end, beyond birth and death, time and space as the Dharmakaya , Law/Dharma body aspect of the Buddha. In my 25 years of chanting to SGI/NST Gohonzon's I have never experienced anything that comes even close to this."

      http://markrogow.blogspot.com/2013/10/nichiren-inscribed-gohonzon-possessed.html?

      The link is where the comment originally was posted

      showComment=1417401100123#c6568443164918022577

      the topic was discussion of the Gohonzon for the Transmission of the Dharma, which Mark had posted a photo of, and I recently accessed as I was researching this site for more information on "Gohonzon"--

      Here is what drew my attention:

      "nodded off this morning while I was chanting and shifted into a state where I experienced a blissful joy and ecstasy that rivaled any psychedelic drug or transcendental state through yoga and meditation that I've had in the past ."

      Noel, you say this experiences *rivaled* those you have had , I will list them:
      1 )psychedelic drug
      2) transcendental state[trhough]
      a) yoga
      b) meditation

      You say here that your chanting experience on this occasion to this Gohonzon ; *rivaled* these previously experienced states, and you conclude:
      "This Gohonzon is very powerful "

      It appears that you are saying, the Gohonzon is powerful because you experienced states chanting from it that you get from psychedelic drugs, yoga and meditation. Granted, I have no experience with psychedelic drugs or yoga, and my very brief attempts at meditation right before I encountered Myoho-renge-kyo were not impressive, but since I did not encounter a writing or teaching of Nichiren's that supports any of your experiences as the *experience* to be sought when chanting to Gohonzon, I was never seeking the one you describe.

      I have to wonder where you got this notion. Then you disclose your reasoning :

      "described in Buddhism as the eternal unchanging, blissful, pure Self , knows of no beginning or end, beyond birth and death, time and space as the Dharmakaya , Law/Dharma body aspect of the Buddha."

      Described in BUDDHISM, but NO Gosho references? No LOTUS SUTRA references? Must be a provisional teaching, then, right, Noel?

      On the comment thread where you originally wrote this, someone apparently deleted a negative response, then Mark wrote:

      "Mark Rogow:
      That was Noel's experience. Mine is much more mundane, living the life of a supporter, follower, and patron of Nichiren."

      My experience chanting to Gohonzon is one of joy emerging from the depths of my life. I don't nod off, or chant after *too many red wines*, or believe anything that is not written by Nichiren or written in the Lotus Sutra itself--So, maybe that is why I cannot relate, but it is definitely where I want to extricate myself from that *boat* you claim *we are ALL in *

      I am NOT in your boat, Noel-- and for some reason, I encountered this old comment of yours, while researching this site for posts on "Gohonzon" to reference for comments I make on ARBN where iainx and I are exploring this topic. I appreciate this experience because it really helped me to see how divergent our views of Nichiren Buddhism really are.

      ~Katie


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    32. Here is the link where the quote from Noel I referenced above appears:

      http://markrogow.blogspot.com/2014/03/mounted-gohonzon-for-transmission-of.html

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    33. You have been given many quotes and references to nichens teaching by me that you have continually ignored to your own demise

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    34. I beg you pardon, Noel? first of all for you to conclude that I am in a state of ^demise^ is beyond the pale--- even for you. For you to make this kind of statement in such an offhanded manner is extremely disconcerting.

      Which Gosho quote(s) have I *Continually* ignored, Noel? How would you substantiate your claim that I *ignored* Gosho quotes? Because I did not agree with your *intepretation*?
      That's not the same thing as *ignoring*-- it is actually, adhering to nichiren's own words.

      What I have done and would always do, is note when you quote from disputed texts [ the ongi kuden comes to mind], ; also when you bring in other sources to support your concept of an Eternal Buddha never mentioned by Nichiren, or use other sources and your *mind revelations* to claim Nichiren was Shakyamuni's teacher or that one *does *or *, may, by choice* [I forget which] regress from the state of perfect enlightenment -- which, if I recall, is how you explain Nichiren's being Shakyamuni's teacher, then just a priest and a votary of the Lotus Sutra--for what purpose I don't really care to know...It's not in the Gosho-- I ignore it.

      Yes, and you spin your eclectic collection of teachings to claim that any of us could have been Nichiren's teacher in a past life-- It gets too weird for me to process, but I do tend to give up because you are NOT taking an actual, authentic Gosho quote literally.

      Now, I do understand that [believing exactly what Nichiren wrote] would be beneath you-- because you are perceiving the True Entity and I, not being in your league, much less aboard your boat, don't have the capability you *believe* you have to reinterpret Nichiren's words.

      Cutting to the chase, Noel. I don't doubt you have *mind revelations* via your meditative practices--- or that you can chant and re-experience an LSD trip, BUT, I also believe people when they say they *feel Jesus has entered their hearts*-- or that *they are in concert with Ikeda's heart*. Such things do occur.

      I don't seek these experiences. I seek to arouse even a single moment of pure faith in the Lotus Sutra when I chant-- I am seeking the Buddha, Shakyamuni who is one with the Lotus Sutra. My goal is to experience the Buddha of the "Life Span" chapter of the lotus Sutra--- who is *always here preaching the Law.* And I have experienced that, Noel. It is inexpressible, but completely grounded in reality-- If you were to devote yourself to achieving this , you would drop all of your other practices like bad habits. Of thatI I have no doubt.

      Will you devote yourself thus ? I hope and pray that you do

      ~Katie

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    35. Thanks for your prayers, we can pray for each other

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  13. No. I don't rely on the Lotus Sutra to send my kids to college or for my 401k.

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  14. Sorry Mark I misconstrued what you were saying . I thought you were talking about spiritual sustenance which sounded a bit odd coming from you. Thanks for clarifying

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  15. Yeah. I was being a bit sarcastic.

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    1. "I would say, when it comes to the Lotus Sutra, I am egoless and ascetic, not relying on the Lotus Sutra for sustenance, unlike the poisoned priests and leaders of the various sects."

      In the light of the sentiment of this statement what you have stated is totally true.

      Spiritual leaders from all walks gain material sustenance from those that believe in them

      Nichiren was not against this principle if they were in line with the Law of Myoho Renge Kyo but warned us of retribution if we supported those who were not

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  16. Correct Noel. There were real priests then, never having married and lay priests who never accepted alms. Shijo Kingo never took one dime in offerings. Contrast him to the high salaried SGI senior leech leaders who accept alms to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year They make me sick and should be taken to Yui beach.

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  17. "We are all in the same boat on that one so your certainly not alone, however it is good that we can agree on some of Nichiren's teachings in the same way that all the other sects and independents do" -- Noel

    Only those who actually believe and teach what Nichiren believed and taught are the disciples and believers of Nichiren. Nichiren had reason to assert that the true believers can fit on the space of a fingernail,

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    1. Just as well there is rebirth/reincarnation so we can have another crack at it if we don't get it right in this life which is most of us according to Nichiren unless he was referring to another planet billions of times bigger than our sun where everyone is a billion times bigger than us with massive fingernails

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    2. Too bad you don't rely ONLY on Nichiren-- but you do go back to him when you need some reassurance, that's for sure!!

      ~Katie

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    3. "Only those who actually believe and teach what Nichiren believed and taught are the disciples and believers of Nichiren.

      Nichiren had reason to assert that the true believers can fit on the space of a fingernail"

      Those few will be the leaders that the masses will follow

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