Bo Fugen and Jim Celer

> >Jim: You guys are so quick to boast of the growth of your membership. I am 

> >merely pointing out that it doesn't mean squat. 

> >Bo: Consider another example: It is an undeniable fact that "Micro$oft" 

> >software is taking over a large part of the computing world with an 

> >increasing success (I should probably not be bitching about that since 

> >quite a substantial part of my expenses is being taken care of because 

> >of the fact that M-$oft exists). Does that mean that they have the best 

> >technology? Hell, no!!! The only thing it really means is that they have 

> >superior marketing skills. Get it, Jim?<<< 

> Jim: Sure, I completely understand your reason for entering this discussion: 

> "Quick -- think of something bad to say about SGI." 

Bo: If that's what you choose to think, fine. But you are wrong, Jim. 
Wouldn't you love for me to just shut up and say nothing bad about SGI? 
To let all of your false claims go unchallenged? I can see how your 
response is sliding into a typical SGI response - skip the issues and 
make a personal remark. 

Do you really think you know what my reasons are, Jim? 

>Jim:  BTW, in many areas, Microsoft really DOES have the best product. 

Bo: Is that an educated guess or a subjective opinion on your part? Are you 
a computer professional? May one assume that all of your opinions have 
this degree of objectivity? 

Actually, there are a few similarities between M-$oft and SGI, 
M-$oft's mission is to dominate its market and make the 
most money. There is also a very distinct personality cult within that 
organization (Mr. Gates is idolized by most of his employees). 
Same as the Soka Gakkai. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against 
Microsoft. But they are a business entity and are entitled to their 
tactics. SGI, otoh, pretends to be this religious, democratic, 
world-peace organization and that's nothing but bull. 

>Jim: Growth -- or being number one -- doesn't NECESSARILY mean quality is lost. 

Bo: It also doesn't mean that its quality is superior. 

>Jim:  I refer you (again) to my original entry into this discussion, 

> especially the phrases "slow but steady" and "members are enjoying their 

> practice and receiving benefits". 

>

Bo: If you ask a serious practitioner of any religious sect or cult,  they will all  

say the same thing 

Continued...

> Bo: Wouldn't you love for me to just shut up and say nothing bad about SGI?<< 

> Jim: Of course I would. No secret there. 

> >Bo: To let all of your false claims go unchallenged? 

> Jim: Let's see -- I gave specific membership data on Omaha Chapter.  You have 
> something to prove those are "false claims?" 

> >Bo: I can see how your response is sliding into a typical SGI response -
> > skip the issues and make a personal remark. Do you really think you know
> >what my reasons are, Jim? 

> Jim: Look at the top -- "Why Is SGI Crumbling".  That's the issue.  Three 
> people (including me) indicated that in their home areas SGI is in fact 
> growing.  For some reason, you prefer to argue with this.  Your logic 
> seems to be "If SGI is losing membership, that proves it's bad.  And if 
> SGI is gaining membership, that also proves it's bad." 
> BTW, I'm sure we can find another ng somewhere on the internet to
>debate the merits of Word vs. WP, but the point is this -- I can't believe you 
> really subscribe to the philosophy that "anything big is evil."  If you 
> do, there's little point even discussing things with you because you're 
> waaaayyyy out there.  So it appears -- in my mind at least, and I'm 
> assuming you're sane -- that you're applying this standard to the SGI 
> simply because you have to say something negative about the SGI.  I'm 
> sorry if the news that SGI members in Nebraska enjoy their practice is 
> unsettling to you, but I really doubt we'll be trying to enjoy our 
> practice less so you'll be happy.  And if that enjoyment results in more 
> people wanting to join, I bet we accept them, despite your problems with 
> our growth. 
> The End.  Go ahead, have the last word.  I'm done with this one. 
> Jim 

Ok, Jim. I'll have the last word then. 

You can try and sell your propaganda to those who may choose to buy it. 
I left SGI pretty recently and I do not have to rely on your phony 
stories to learn about your cult. Been there, done that and there is no 
substantive way that your opinion has more validity or objectivity than 
mine. In addition, no matter how much you may hate this fact but I am as 
entitled to express my opinions as you are yours. Live with it! 

If you don't like that others disagree with you and challenge your 
viewpoints, I suggest that you get the hell out of a.r.b.n. and stick to 
your Gakkai meetings where you will find plenty of support and 
encouragement. This ain't zadankai, my friend, and thanks for that. 

I would venture to say that in agreement one may find comfort, but in 
disagreement one can get closer to the truth.