Yes they are fake, like the non-Buddhists that slandered the Buddha and Sangha. It is ironic in how they describe the Buddha and his followers is actually the same as their deviant Devadatta like leaders and themselves
"The thirty-eighth volume of the Nirvana Sutra states, “At that time there were countless non-Buddhists. . . . Their hearts gave rise to fury.” It also says, “At that time there were innumerable non-Buddhists who plotted together and went as a group to Ajātashatru, the king of Magadha, and said: ‘At present there is a man of incomparable wickedness, a monk called Gautama. O King, you have never examined him, and this arouses much fear in us. All sorts of evil people, hoping to gain profit and alms, have flocked to him and become his followers. [These people do not practice goodness, but instead use the power of spells and magic to win over men like] Mahākāshyapa, Shāriputra, and Maudgalyāyana.’” This well illustrates the meaning of the passage: “Since hatred and jealousy [toward this sutra] abound even when the Thus Come One is in the world . . .”
(The Votary of the Lotus Sutra Will Meet Persecution)
Hey, Mark! I just put up a transcription of a couple more pages from the elusive Shakubuku Kyoten over on SGIWhistleblowers - feel free to use them if you like them. Blanche
Hi Mark, I stumbled across this blog post when I was looking into SGI belief changes. It's not specifically SGI focussed and it's a "post-traditional" Buddhist blog but I found the post really informative:
Critical Thinking, creativity and the problem with beliefs - NKT, Rigpa and SGI
Then I searched the blog site and came on some podcasts. The discussion on cults versus new religions is interesting (fairly long). Mainly focused on Buddhist Cults and on the Tibetan tradition, there are some striking similarities with some of what SGI puts out. It's a soundcloud hosted pod cast. Doris might also find it useful too? References the Orange list...
It appears that theposttraditionalbuddhism not unlike the moderators from SGI whistle blowers have a similar view as BlancheFromage who states very clearly at the end of Shakubuku Kyoten in SGI whistle blowers
"I'm stardust; that's where I come from, that's where I will return to. And that's enough for me. My thoughts are nothing but a function of my electrical brain, and once that current stops flowing, I'll be done. And I will be forgotten. And I'm okay with that. I am emptiness, dependent origination, impermanence, anatta and anatman.
This is at odds with what Nichiren taught. She and her cohorts have no respect for his teachings but rather harp on about him wanting to cut of the heads of rival priests and burn down their temples with minds that are shut to any other explanations.
Take heed Blanche and critics of Nichirens words from his Gosho "The Importance of the Moment of Death"
IN your letter you write that your husband chanted Nam-myoho-renge-kyo day and night. You say that when the time drew near he chanted twice in a loud voice. And that his complexion was whiter than it had been in life, and that he didn’t lose his looks.
The Lotus Sutra reads, “[This reality consists of] the appearance . . . and their consistency from beginning to end.”1 The Treatise on the Great Perfection of Wisdom reads, “Those with a dark complexion at the moment of death will fall into hell.”2 The Protection Sutra reads, “There are fifteen types of signs that appear at one’s death showing that one will fall into hell. There are eight types of signs showing that one will be reborn in the realm of hungry spirits. There are five types of signs showing that one will be reborn in the realm of animals.” The Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai’s Great Concentration and Insight reads, “The body turning dark represents the darkness of hell.”3
Looking back, I have been studying the Buddha’s teachings since I was a boy. And I found myself thinking, “The life of a human being is fleeting. The exhaled breath never waits for the inhaled one. Even dew before the wind is hardly a sufficient metaphor. It is the way of the world that whether one is wise or foolish, old or young, one never knows what will happen to one from one moment to the next. Therefore I should first of all learn about death, and then about other things.”
So I gathered and considered the sacred teachings of Shakyamuni’s entire lifetime, as well as the writings and commentaries of scholars and teachers. Then I applied them as a bright mirror to the moment of people’s deaths and what followed after death, and found not the slightest discrepancy.
I saw that this person had fallen into hell, or that that person had been reborn in the world of human or heavenly beings. On the other hand, people in society were hiding the truth about the last moments of their teachers or their parents, saying only that they had been reborn in the Pure Land in the west. How pitiful that when their teacher has fallen into the evil paths of existence and is facing numerous unbearable sufferings, the disciples who remain in this world are praising his death, only making his sufferings in hell worse. They may be compared to one who clamps shut the mouth of a person guilty of a serious offense when he is being questioned, or to one who leaves another’s boil unopened so that it festers.
Be that as it may, you say in this p.760letter that his complexion was whiter than it had been in life and that he didn’t lose his looks.
T’ien-t’ai says, “Pure white represents the realm of heavenly beings.”4 Great Perfection of Wisdom says, “Those whose faces are pink and white, and whose features retain their proper shape, are reborn in the realm of heavenly beings.”5 The record regarding the death of the Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai reads, “His countenance was fair.”6 The record about the death of the Tripitaka Master Hsüan-tsang reads, “His countenance was fair.”7 A standard that identifies the sacred teachings of the Buddha’s entire lifetime is the teaching that “those who have performed evil deeds will remain in the six paths of existence, and those who have performed good deeds will be reborn in the four noble worlds.”8
Judging from these passages of proof from the texts and this actual proof, I would say that your husband has surely been reborn in the realm of heavenly beings.
You also say in your letter that at the moment of death he chanted the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra twice. The seventh volume of the Lotus Sutra reads, “After I have passed into extinction, [one] should accept and uphold this sutra. Such a person assuredly and without doubt will attain the Buddha way.”9 There is not a single insignificant matter among all the sacred teachings of the Buddha’s entire lifetime. All are the golden words of Shakyamuni Buddha, who is our father, the great sage, and the lord of teachings; all are the truth; all are true words. They may be categorized as Hinayana or Mahayana, exoteric or esoteric, provisional Mahayana or true Mahayana. When we compare the teachings of the Buddha with the teachings of the two deities10 and three ascetics, Taoists, and other non-Buddhists, these latter are false words and the Buddha’s teachings true words.
But among these true words, there are lies, true words, words of excessive flourishes, and abusive words. Among these, the Lotus Sutra is the truest of true words, and the truest of truths.
Schools such as the True Word, Flower Garland, Three Treatises, Dharma Characteristics, Dharma Analysis Treasury, Establishment of Truth, Precepts, Nembutsu, and Zen are all schools formulated from the lies found amidst the true words. The Lotus school is true words that bear no resemblance to those schools. And not only are the words of the Lotus Sutra true, but when the false words of the sutras of Shakyamuni’s entire lifetime enter the great sea of the Lotus Sutra, compelled by the power of the Lotus Sutra, they become true words. How much more so, then, must this be the case with the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra.
White face powder has the power to make black lacquer as white as snow. Any color approaching Mount Sumeru takes on a golden hue. One who upholds the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra transforms the black lacquer of the evil deeds of a lifetime, and of countless kalpas of lifetimes in the past, into the great merit of good deeds. All the more so is this true of one’s good roots from the beginningless past, which all take on a golden hue.
And when your deceased husband chanted Nam-myoho-renge-kyo at the end on his deathbed, the evil deeds of a lifetime, and from the beginningless past, changed into the seeds of Buddhahood. This is what is meant by the teachings called “earthly desires are enlightenment,” “the sufferings of birth and death are nirvana,” and “attaining Buddhahood in one’s present form.”
And because you are the beloved wife of such a man, the teaching of women attaining Buddhahood without doubt also applies to you. And if this were to be a lie, Shakyamuni, Many p.761Treasures, and all the Buddhas of the ten directions, who are Shakyamuni’s emanations, would be liars, great liars, evildoers, and those who deceive all living beings and cause them to fall into hell. Devadatta would become the lord of the pure land of Tranquil Light. Shakyamuni, the lord of teachings, would be choked in the inferno of the great citadel of the Avīchi hell. The sun and moon would fall from the sky, the earth would overturn, the rivers would run backwards, and Mount Sumeru would crumble into dust.
It would not be Nichiren’s lie; rather it would be the lie of all the Buddhas in the ten directions and three existences. But consider: How could such a thing ever be? I will explain this matter in detail when we meet.
"It appears that the posttraditionalbuddhism not unlike the moderators from SGI whistle blowers have a similar view as BlancheFromage who states very clearly at the end of Shakubuku Kyoten in SGI whistle blowers"
This is irrelevant to the post or its discussion, it's also misrepresenting the authors of these sites from what I have heard and read.
The relevance of these sites is the tools and prompts it gives believer (victims) of supposedly "religious" organisations like NKT, SGI to think independently and critically about those organisations, their teachings and their "claims".
Of course one would expect that people who pick up such tools and utilise such prompts and who become independent, will also use those to evaluate the perspectives and views of the sites's authors/contributors.
One does not have to accept another person's truth or view to not gain value from the tools and resources they have offered, nor agree with their stance. Adults don't have to accept everything fed to them by a source, they can use discrimination and take a nuanced view. That 's part of being grown up.
But your post and it's typical attempt to scare and threaten doom is telling for several reasons:
1) It suggests you are an SGI hound and that these resources is indeed effective and therefore valuable to SGI members and others that have legitimate questions about their organisation, it's leaders and it's teachings. That SGI members should make use of them even though you don't want them to.
2) That because they are valuable resources, these sites are a real threat to the status quo within the SGI (or you would not have responded), which is why you don't want members to use them.
3) You cannot deal directly with the nature of that threat or address it directly based on robust arguments, so you are reduced to misrepresention and attempted diversionary tactics, mis-directing to irrelevant points and quotes. This is your attempt to stop members from using these and similar sites.
Following threads on ARBN and other fora I have seen similar tactics used by SGI contributors on many occasions. When the arguments, evidence or resources are too strong to counter directly, when the threat becomes too big, irrelevance, misdirection and smearing at often used. This is a repeated pattern in SGI debating, particularly notable among certain individuals (probably directly on the SGI payroll?).
So, despite your efforts, thank you for giving your big upvote for Doris & SGI Whistle blowers and for sites like post traditional Buddhism.
May SGI, NKT and members of any other such organisation flood to their doors, start thinking for themselves, leave their exploiters, expose and denounce them and their methods to the world.
May these people also find the correct spiritual path and practice and peace in the process.
Reading the Lotus Sutra directly, chanting Namu myoho renge kyo and reading and pondering what Nichiren actually wrote and taught (as opposed to the conditioned, misinterpreted and selectively quoted version on offer in the SGI), would I believe, be a very good place to start.
There is no incompatibility between questioning, inquiry and the building of correct and strong faith, as the Lotus Sutra directly states and amply illustrates. The same is true of Nichiren, whose life story rests on such (and is explicitly stated as such in his writings).
You seek to create a false conflict between things that are actually compatible.
That you clearly do not know the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's teachings well enough to understand this (or do but deliberately mis-represent them) and that you are scared of what could happen should currently compliant people wake up, start using their heads and employing resources available to them, speaks volumes...
All of the the moderators of sgi whistlblowers think like this. They see Nichiren as the source of all the problems that are going on in Nichiren Buddhism just as those who believe that ikeda is the source of the problems within the SGI and Nichikan for Nichiren Shoshu and the list goes on
There is no religion that is not destructive. Not one. A given religion may be less damaging to its members and/or not universally damaging to all its members than certain other religions (by comparison), but all religions ARE, by their very nature, destructive.
Any system that promotes and encourages irrational belief, magical thinking, and self-destructive behaviour is damaging to individuals and to society. And every single religion is, to a greater or lesser degree, guilty. "Being religious" and "religious piety" are nothing but various forms of irrational belief + magical thinking + self-destructive behavior.
I can't be anti-SGI but pro-Nichiren, because Nichiren was an intolerant bastard. He frequently demanded that the government of Japan cut the heads off his religious rivals and burn their temples to the ground, and he couldn't sing his own praises loudly enough. I regard Nichirenism as pernicious just as I regard Catholicism, Mormonism, Evangelical Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Scientology, and all the rest as pernicious." Blanchefromage
I don't know if you a part of the tricky SGI whistleblowers or someone like Blanche who may be pretending not to be part of this whistleblower project that is designed to undermine the faith of those that trust in Nichiren.
You could even be SGI for all I know. What whistleblowers and the SGI have in common is that they both hate Nichiren who they think is the cause of all the problems
I have developed a trust in Nichiren so it grieves me to hear such vilification of such a Great person,messenger sage, boddhistava Buddha, Thus Come One Musa Sanjin Buddha, votary of the Lotus Sutra etc
Blatant Hypocrisy staring us in the face
"And Mark, clearly I wouldn't be advocating chanting the Daimoku, the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's if I thought they weren't valid" And in just about in her next breath Blanche says
"We are not creating a forum for any of that here. Chanting is an unhealthy practice that can create an endorphin dependency habit that can be difficult to break, just like any habit. The life of the person chanting the magic chant is passing him/her by just as surely as the life of the opium addict lying on a couch in thrall to beautiful drug-induced visions. We do not condone that sort of time-wasting here."
"Nichiren promoted attachments; this is the antithesis of Buddhism. Nichiren corrupted and perverted Buddhism for his own gain, because of his own narcissism, in service to his own bad temper and ego. Those who hand-wave away Nichiren's murderous fascist declarations are doing no one any favors - they're really no different from the neo-Nazis who insist that Hitler had a lot of really good ideas. We do not condone that sort of hatefulness here."
It is ironic how similar Blanch's ego and tendencies are in how she describes Nichiren.
She has become like the monstrous thing that she accuses Nichiren of ...scary. It would be safer for her to focus on constructive criticisms of the SGI. When it comes to slandering Nichiren she has stepped over the boundary into dangerous territory
Nichiren has some kind words that are applicable for the SGI whisteblowers
"What fortune is mine to expiate in one lifetime the offenses of slandering the Law I have accumulated from the infinite past! How delighted I am to serve Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of teachings, whom I have never seen! I pray that before anything else I can guide and lead the ruler and those others who persecuted me. I will tell the Buddha about all the disciples who have aided me,"
On Repaying Debts of Gratitude
We should follow Nichirens example and pray for Sgi Whistleblowers and especially the SGI that they have become so much alike in their disdain for Nichiren
"This is irrelevant to the post or its discussion, it's also misrepresenting the authors of these sites from what I have heard and read."
If this is what you have heard and read but not understood then you make as much sense as the blathering idiot Tim Janakos graduate of Soka University of America
Read what Nichien has to say, this may bring some clarity to your muddled mind and then may you wake up, start using your head and start employing resources that are available to you, like this Gosho that speaks volumes. From what you have so far said I cannot see that you know the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's teachings
"ON examination [of the Lotus Sutra], we find that those who are born in this land and believe in this sutra when it is propagated in the Latter Day of the Law will be subjected to hatred and jealousy even greater than that which arose in the lifetime of the Thus Come One. In that age, the master who taught and converted the people was the Buddha, and his disciples were great bodhisattvas and arhats. Moreover, the Buddha expounded the Lotus Sutra only after he had developed and trained the living beings who were to hear it, including the human and heavenly beings, the four kinds of believers, and the nonhuman beings such as the eight kinds of beings. Still, many of them harbored hatred and jealousy.
Now, in the Latter Day of the Law, though the teaching, the people’s capacity, and the time for propagation are in accord, we must expect all the more hostility. For this is the age when quarrels and disputes prevail, and the pure Law is obscured and lost.1 Moreover, the teacher is but an ordinary practitioner, and his disciples come from among evil people defiled by the three poisons. For this reason, people shun the good teacher and associate with evil teachers."
This is a snippet what Nichiren has to say about rebirth and Karma.
"I saw that this person had fallen into hell, or that that person had been reborn in the world of human or heavenly beings. On the other hand, people in society were hiding the truth about the last moments of their teachers or their parents, saying only that they had been reborn in the Pure Land in the west. How pitiful that when their teacher has fallen into the evil paths of existence and is facing numerous unbearable sufferings, the disciples who remain in this world are praising his death, only making his sufferings in hell worse. They may be compared to one who clamps shut the mouth of a person guilty of a serious offense when he is being questioned, or to one who leaves another’s boil unopened so that it festers. (The Importance of the Moment of Death)
Having witnessed the death of countless individuals, I can say with confidence that Nichiren's observations are absolutely correct. You denounce Nichiren and the Lotus Sutra at your own peril.
"All of the the moderators of sgi whistle blowers think like this. They see Nichiren as the source of all the problems that are going on in Nichiren Buddhism just as those who believe that ikeda is the source of the problems within the SGI and Nichikan for Nichiren Shoshu and the list goes on"
That may be true Jewelled Glow but it's still irrelevant to the resources offered. I've made that point already. Perhaps you want to read my post with a clear head and after some Daimoku before running off on a course that's completely unrelated to what's written? It would save you a lot of energy!
And Mark, clearly I wouldn't be advocating chanting the Daimoku, the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren 's if I thought they weren't valid.
Both - I have trust in people, if a faith and teaching is strong it will withstand scrutiny, that's the point. Being able to scrutinize makes people independent, such people have, in my experience much stronger faith, much deeper roots and a more resilient practice. They are much less prone to manipulation. That's the point.
Or do you want people to simply have blind faith? Is that the project here?
I have to say, it rather appears the diversionary tactic by the anonymous Gosho quoted worked. So easily diverted into discussing something that's irrelevant to the resources rather than open up a new thread to deal with that topic. How odd.
I don't know if you a part of the tricky SGI whistleblowers or someone like Blanche who may be pretending not to be part of this whistleblower project that is designed to undermine the faith of those that trust in Nichiren.
You could even be SGI for all I know. What whistleblowers and the SGI have in common is that they both hate Nichiren who they think is the cause of all the problems
I have developed a trust in Nichiren so it grieves me to hear such vilification of such a Great person,messenger sage, boddhistava Buddha, Thus Come One Musa Sanjin Buddha, votary of the Lotus Sutra etc
Blatant Hypocrisy staring us in the face
"And Mark, clearly I wouldn't be advocating chanting the Daimoku, the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's if I thought they weren't valid"
"We are not creating a forum for any of that here. Chanting is an unhealthy practice that can create an endorphin dependency habit that can be difficult to break, just like any habit. The life of the person chanting the magic chant is passing him/her by just as surely as the life of the opium addict lying on a couch in thrall to beautiful drug-induced visions. We do not condone that sort of time-wasting here."
"Nichiren promoted attachments; this is the antithesis of Buddhism. Nichiren corrupted and perverted Buddhism for his own gain, because of his own narcissism, in service to his own bad temper and ego. Those who hand-wave away Nichiren's murderous fascist declarations are doing no one any favors - they're really no different from the neo-Nazis who insist that Hitler had a lot of really good ideas. We do not condone that sort of hatefulness here."
It is ironic how similar SGI whistleblowers ego and tendencies are in how it describes Nichiren.
IT has become like the monstrous thing that she accuses Nichiren of ...scary. It would be safer for her to focus on constructive criticisms of the SGI. When it comes to slandering Nichiren it has stepped over the boundary into dangerous territory
Nichiren has some kind words that are applicable for the SGI whisteblowers
"What fortune is mine to expiate in one lifetime the offenses of slandering the Law I have accumulated from the infinite past! How delighted I am to serve Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of teachings, whom I have never seen! I pray that before anything else I can guide and lead the ruler and those others who persecuted me. I will tell the Buddha about all the disciples who have aided me,"
On Repaying Debts of Gratitude
We should follow Nichirens example and pray for Sgi Whistleblowers and especially the SGI that they have become so much alike in their disdain for Nichiren how ironic
"If this is what you have heard and read but not understood then you make as much sense as the blathering idiot Tim Janakos graduate of Soka University of America
Read what Nichien has to say, this may bring some clarity to your muddled mind and then may you wake up, start using your head and start employing resources that are available to you, like this Gosho that speaks volumes. From what you have so far said I cannot see that you know the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's teachings."
Perhaps Jeweled Glow, I should be surprised that with your superior knowledge of the Sutra and Nichiren's writings, you didn't spot the paraphrase in my post. Perhaps your greater clarity blinded you to such a small detail. However here it is:
"Wondering how to resolve this dilemma, I made a vow. I decided that I would not heed the claims of these eight or ten schools, but would do as the Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai did and let the sutras themselves be my sole teacher, in this way determining which of the various teachings of the Buddha’s lifetime are superior and which are inferior. With this in mind, I began to read through all the sutras." (Repaying Debts of Gratitude - SGI version for convenience of posting).
What Nichiren is undertaking here is a critical analysis using the Sutras as his guide. Later he sets out his approach, which he restates in several writings ( Rely on the Law...). Now compare the above Gosho and his approach with the relevant part of my post:
"Reading the Lotus Sutra directly, chanting Namu myoho renge kyo and reading and pondering what Nichiren actually wrote and taught (as opposed to the conditioned, misinterpreted and selectively quoted version on offer in the SGI), would I believe, be a very good place to start."
Or perhaps you are going to tell my that my paragraph is incompatible with Nichiren's? If so, by all means explain why but please not as an flame response, reasonable debate is welcome.
"We are not creating a forum for any of that here. Chanting is an unhealthy practice that can create an endorphin dependency habit that can be difficult to break, just like any habit. The life of the person chanting the magic chant is passing him/her by just as surely as the life of the opium addict lying on a couch in thrall to beautiful drug-induced visions. We do not condone that sort of time-wasting here."
"Nichiren promoted attachments; this is the antithesis of Buddhism. Nichiren corrupted and perverted Buddhism for his own gain, because of his own narcissism, in service to his own bad temper and ego. Those who hand-wave away Nichiren's murderous fascist declarations are doing no one any favors - they're really no different from the neo-Nazis who insist that Hitler had a lot of really good ideas. We do not condone that sort of hatefulness here."
It is ironic how similar Blanch's ego and tendencies are in how she describes Nichiren.
She has become like the monstrous thing that she accuses Nichiren of ...scary. It would be safer for her to focus on constructive criticisms of the SGI. When it comes to slandering Nichiren she has stepped over the boundary into dangerous territory
Nichiren has some kind words that are applicable for the SGI whisteblowers
"What fortune is mine to expiate in one lifetime the offenses of slandering the Law I have accumulated from the infinite past! How delighted I am to serve Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of teachings, whom I have never seen! I pray that before anything else I can guide and lead the ruler and those others who persecuted me. I will tell the Buddha about all the disciples who have aided me,"
On Repaying Debts of Gratitude
We should follow Nichirens example and pray for Blanche and her cohorts
I'm not Blanche (or at least I hope not - no disrespect Blanche!). And for clarity nor am I a contributor or authors on any of those sites, I am completely unaffiliated to either.
What I am is simply a person who stumbled on some information and resources I found useful and wondered if others would too, so I shared them. If you don't, fine, I'm cool with that. I'm not threatened by contrary opinions nor is my faith, the latter of which is kept fresh and vibrant by such.
What I do however find slightly strange is how you guys can all pile in without reading posts properly and making false assumptions and be so willing to take discussion away from being about the shenanigans of organizations (which this thread seemed to be about) and make it instead about a wider discussion about faith.
I'm not saying the latter isn't valid by the way, just that it seems completely inappropriate to the thread or the resources that were offered.
I have to say that with such brittle reactions, you make Blanche's position (which I don't agree with BTW) more credible. I may not agree with her but I certainly respect what she has to say and the way she goes about saying it. Same goes with the guys over on NTB.
I think sometimes we forget that we're all imperfect and that tendency seems more marked in religious folk generally, at least the ones who shout most about their faiths. Is it any wonder faith has died out in so many people?
We should perhaps look to ourselves first before trying to wrestle our shadows in the other...but isn't that the beauty of having way to observe our minds? If we really believe it, perhaps we should start using it!
What is it Nichiren said "The significance of the Buddha's appearance in the world, lay in his behavior as a human being"...
I think you are a bit paranoid anonymous because as I already stated, "My reply was to Jewelglow. Not for a moment did I come to question your faith or motivation."
Obviously, Noel did confuse you with Jewelglow. Regardless, I think that Noel's criticism of Post Traditional Buddhist is valid.
Sorry anomomous I accidentally replied to the wrong anonymous . I'm sure you can find a nice name to represent yourself at Eagle Peak. I will copy and paste what I sent to the right anomomous that I believe is Blanche
The post traditional Buddhists only appreciate the Two Truths of Buddhism, Temporary Existence and Non-Substantiality (Only go so far as Nagarjuna). Tientai, Dengyo, and Nichiren embraced the Three Truths, having realized the Truth of the Middle Way which explains that the true nature of life and all phenomena is that they are neither non-substantial nor temporary, though they display attributes of both. This accounts perfectly for karma and rebirth through the Three Existences (past, present and future).
Yes they are fake, like the non-Buddhists that slandered the Buddha and Sangha. It is ironic in how they describe the Buddha and his followers is actually the same as their deviant Devadatta like leaders and themselves
ReplyDelete"The thirty-eighth volume of the Nirvana Sutra states, “At that time there were countless non-Buddhists. . . . Their hearts gave rise to fury.” It also says, “At that time there were innumerable non-Buddhists who plotted together and went as a group to Ajātashatru, the king of Magadha, and said: ‘At present there is a man of incomparable wickedness, a monk called Gautama. O King, you have never examined him, and this arouses much fear in us. All sorts of evil people, hoping to gain profit and alms, have flocked to him and become his followers. [These people do not practice goodness, but instead use the power of spells and magic to win over men like] Mahākāshyapa, Shāriputra, and Maudgalyāyana.’” This well illustrates the meaning of the passage: “Since hatred and jealousy [toward this sutra] abound even when the Thus Come One is in the world . . .”
(The Votary of the Lotus Sutra Will Meet Persecution)
Hey, Mark! I just put up a transcription of a couple more pages from the elusive Shakubuku Kyoten over on SGIWhistleblowers - feel free to use them if you like them. Blanche
ReplyDeleteThank you both.
ReplyDeleteHi Mark, I stumbled across this blog post when I was looking into SGI belief changes. It's not specifically SGI focussed and it's a "post-traditional" Buddhist blog but I found the post really informative:
ReplyDeleteCritical Thinking, creativity and the problem with beliefs - NKT, Rigpa and SGI
http://posttraditionalbuddhism.com/2015/02/25/critical-thinking-creativity-the-problem-with-beliefs-the-nkt-rigpa-and-sgi/
The site home is:
http://posttraditionalbuddhism.com/
Then I searched the blog site and came on some podcasts. The discussion on cults versus new religions is interesting (fairly long). Mainly focused on Buddhist Cults and on the Tibetan tradition, there are some striking similarities with some of what SGI puts out. It's a soundcloud hosted pod cast. Doris might also find it useful too? References the Orange list...
https://m.soundcloud.com/post-traditional-buddhism/31-imperfect-buddha-podcast-cults-cultish-shennanigans-buddhist-groups
I hope these help. :)
Will check them out. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteposttraditionalbuddhism alright it really cuts through a lot of the crap and goes for the jugular. It certainly takes the wind out of their sails
ReplyDeleteIt appears that theposttraditionalbuddhism not unlike the moderators from SGI whistle blowers have a similar view as BlancheFromage who states very clearly at the end of Shakubuku Kyoten in SGI whistle blowers
Delete"I'm stardust; that's where I come from, that's where I will return to. And that's enough for me. My thoughts are nothing but a function of my electrical brain, and once that current stops flowing, I'll be done. And I will be forgotten. And I'm okay with that. I am emptiness, dependent origination, impermanence, anatta and anatman.
This is at odds with what Nichiren taught. She and her cohorts have no respect for his teachings but rather harp on about him wanting to cut of the heads of rival priests and burn down their temples with minds that are shut to any other explanations.
Take heed Blanche and critics of Nichirens words from his Gosho "The Importance of the Moment of Death"
IN your letter you write that your husband chanted Nam-myoho-renge-kyo day and night. You say that when the time drew near he chanted twice in a loud voice. And that his complexion was whiter than it had been in life, and that he didn’t lose his looks.
The Lotus Sutra reads, “[This reality consists of] the appearance . . . and their consistency from beginning to end.”1 The Treatise on the Great Perfection of Wisdom reads, “Those with a dark complexion at the moment of death will fall into hell.”2 The Protection Sutra reads, “There are fifteen types of signs that appear at one’s death showing that one will fall into hell. There are eight types of signs showing that one will be reborn in the realm of hungry spirits. There are five types of signs showing that one will be reborn in the realm of animals.” The Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai’s Great Concentration and Insight reads, “The body turning dark represents the darkness of hell.”3
Looking back, I have been studying the Buddha’s teachings since I was a boy. And I found myself thinking, “The life of a human being is fleeting. The exhaled breath never waits for the inhaled one. Even dew before the wind is hardly a sufficient metaphor. It is the way of the world that whether one is wise or foolish, old or young, one never knows what will happen to one from one moment to the next. Therefore I should first of all learn about death, and then about other things.”
So I gathered and considered the sacred teachings of Shakyamuni’s entire lifetime, as well as the writings and commentaries of scholars and teachers. Then I applied them as a bright mirror to the moment of people’s deaths and what followed after death, and found not the slightest discrepancy.
I saw that this person had fallen into hell, or that that person had been reborn in the world of human or heavenly beings. On the other hand, people in society were hiding the truth about the last moments of their teachers or their parents, saying only that they had been reborn in the Pure Land in the west. How pitiful that when their teacher has fallen into the evil paths of existence and is facing numerous unbearable sufferings, the disciples who remain in this world are praising his death, only making his sufferings in hell worse. They may be compared to one who clamps shut the mouth of a person guilty of a serious offense when he is being questioned, or to one who leaves another’s boil unopened so that it festers.
Be that as it may, you say in this p.760letter that his complexion was whiter than it had been in life and that he didn’t lose his looks.
ReplyDeleteT’ien-t’ai says, “Pure white represents the realm of heavenly beings.”4 Great Perfection of Wisdom says, “Those whose faces are pink and white, and whose features retain their proper shape, are reborn in the realm of heavenly beings.”5 The record regarding the death of the Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai reads, “His countenance was fair.”6 The record about the death of the Tripitaka Master Hsüan-tsang reads, “His countenance was fair.”7 A standard that identifies the sacred teachings of the Buddha’s entire lifetime is the teaching that “those who have performed evil deeds will remain in the six paths of existence, and those who have performed good deeds will be reborn in the four noble worlds.”8
Judging from these passages of proof from the texts and this actual proof, I would say that your husband has surely been reborn in the realm of heavenly beings.
You also say in your letter that at the moment of death he chanted the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra twice. The seventh volume of the Lotus Sutra reads, “After I have passed into extinction, [one] should accept and uphold this sutra. Such a person assuredly and without doubt will attain the Buddha way.”9 There is not a single insignificant matter among all the sacred teachings of the Buddha’s entire lifetime. All are the golden words of Shakyamuni Buddha, who is our father, the great sage, and the lord of teachings; all are the truth; all are true words. They may be categorized as Hinayana or Mahayana, exoteric or esoteric, provisional Mahayana or true Mahayana. When we compare the teachings of the Buddha with the teachings of the two deities10 and three ascetics, Taoists, and other non-Buddhists, these latter are false words and the Buddha’s teachings true words.
But among these true words, there are lies, true words, words of excessive flourishes, and abusive words. Among these, the Lotus Sutra is the truest of true words, and the truest of truths.
Schools such as the True Word, Flower Garland, Three Treatises, Dharma Characteristics, Dharma Analysis Treasury, Establishment of Truth, Precepts, Nembutsu, and Zen are all schools formulated from the lies found amidst the true words. The Lotus school is true words that bear no resemblance to those schools. And not only are the words of the Lotus Sutra true, but when the false words of the sutras of Shakyamuni’s entire lifetime enter the great sea of the Lotus Sutra, compelled by the power of the Lotus Sutra, they become true words. How much more so, then, must this be the case with the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra.
White face powder has the power to make black lacquer as white as snow. Any color approaching Mount Sumeru takes on a golden hue. One who upholds the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra transforms the black lacquer of the evil deeds of a lifetime, and of countless kalpas of lifetimes in the past, into the great merit of good deeds. All the more so is this true of one’s good roots from the beginningless past, which all take on a golden hue.
And when your deceased husband chanted Nam-myoho-renge-kyo at the end on his deathbed, the evil deeds of a lifetime, and from the beginningless past, changed into the seeds of Buddhahood. This is what is meant by the teachings called “earthly desires are enlightenment,” “the sufferings of birth and death are nirvana,” and “attaining Buddhahood in one’s present form.”
And because you are the beloved wife of such a man, the teaching of women attaining Buddhahood without doubt also applies to you. And if this were to be a lie, Shakyamuni, Many p.761Treasures, and all the Buddhas of the ten directions, who are Shakyamuni’s emanations, would be liars, great liars, evildoers, and those who deceive all living beings and cause them to fall into hell. Devadatta would become the lord of the pure land of Tranquil Light. Shakyamuni, the lord of teachings, would be choked in the inferno of the great citadel of the Avīchi hell. The sun and moon would fall from the sky, the earth would overturn, the rivers would run backwards, and Mount Sumeru would crumble into dust.
ReplyDeleteIt would not be Nichiren’s lie; rather it would be the lie of all the Buddhas in the ten directions and three existences. But consider: How could such a thing ever be? I will explain this matter in detail when we meet.
Nichiren
The fourteenth day of the seventh month
Please read this to the lay nun Myōhō.
"It appears that the posttraditionalbuddhism not unlike the moderators from SGI whistle blowers have a similar view as BlancheFromage who states very clearly at the end of Shakubuku Kyoten in SGI whistle blowers"
ReplyDeleteThis is irrelevant to the post or its discussion, it's also misrepresenting the authors of these sites from what I have heard and read.
The relevance of these sites is the tools and prompts it gives believer (victims) of supposedly "religious" organisations like NKT, SGI to think independently and critically about those organisations, their teachings and their "claims".
Of course one would expect that people who pick up such tools and utilise such prompts and who become independent, will also use those to evaluate the perspectives and views of the sites's authors/contributors.
One does not have to accept another person's truth or view to not gain value from the tools and resources they have offered, nor agree with their stance. Adults don't have to accept everything fed to them by a source, they can use discrimination and take a nuanced view. That 's part of being grown up.
But your post and it's typical attempt to scare and threaten doom is telling for several reasons:
1) It suggests you are an SGI hound and that these resources is indeed effective and therefore valuable to SGI members and others that have legitimate questions about their organisation, it's leaders and it's teachings. That SGI members should make use of them even though you don't want them to.
2) That because they are valuable resources, these sites are a real threat to the status quo within the SGI (or you would not have responded), which is why you don't want members to use them.
3) You cannot deal directly with the nature of that threat or address it directly based on robust arguments, so you are reduced to misrepresention and attempted diversionary tactics, mis-directing to irrelevant points and quotes. This is your attempt to stop members from using these and similar sites.
Following threads on ARBN and other fora I have seen similar tactics used by SGI contributors on many occasions. When the arguments, evidence or resources are too strong to counter directly, when the threat becomes too big, irrelevance, misdirection and smearing at often used. This is a repeated pattern in SGI debating, particularly notable among certain individuals (probably directly on the SGI payroll?).
So, despite your efforts, thank you for giving your big upvote for Doris & SGI Whistle blowers and for sites like post traditional Buddhism.
May SGI, NKT and members of any other such organisation flood to their doors, start thinking for themselves, leave their exploiters, expose and denounce them and their methods to the world.
May these people also find the correct spiritual path and practice and peace in the process.
Reading the Lotus Sutra directly, chanting Namu myoho renge kyo and reading and pondering what Nichiren actually wrote and taught (as opposed to the conditioned, misinterpreted and selectively quoted version on offer in the SGI), would I believe, be a very good place to start.
There is no incompatibility between questioning, inquiry and the building of correct and strong faith, as the Lotus Sutra directly states and amply illustrates. The same is true of Nichiren, whose life story rests on such (and is explicitly stated as such in his writings).
You seek to create a false conflict between things that are actually compatible.
That you clearly do not know the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's teachings well enough to understand this (or do but deliberately mis-represent them) and that you are scared of what could happen should currently compliant people wake up, start using their heads and employing resources available to them, speaks volumes...
All of the the moderators of sgi whistlblowers think like this. They see Nichiren as the source of all the problems that are going on in Nichiren Buddhism just as those who believe that ikeda is the source of the problems within the SGI and Nichikan for Nichiren Shoshu and the list goes on
Deletehttps://www.reddit.com/r/sgiwhistleblowers/comments/296tnz/antisgi_vs_antinichiren/?
"I believe a little clarification is in order.
There is no religion that is not destructive. Not one. A given religion may be less damaging to its members and/or not universally damaging to all its members than certain other religions (by comparison), but all religions ARE, by their very nature, destructive.
Any system that promotes and encourages irrational belief, magical thinking, and self-destructive behaviour is damaging to individuals and to society. And every single religion is, to a greater or lesser degree, guilty. "Being religious" and "religious piety" are nothing but various forms of irrational belief + magical thinking + self-destructive behavior.
I can't be anti-SGI but pro-Nichiren, because Nichiren was an intolerant bastard. He frequently demanded that the government of Japan cut the heads off his religious rivals and burn their temples to the ground, and he couldn't sing his own praises loudly enough. I regard Nichirenism as pernicious just as I regard Catholicism, Mormonism, Evangelical Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Scientology, and all the rest as pernicious." Blanchefromage
I don't know if you a part of the tricky SGI whistleblowers or someone like Blanche who may be pretending not to be part of this whistleblower project that is designed to undermine the faith of those that trust in Nichiren.
DeleteYou could even be SGI for all I know. What whistleblowers and the SGI have in common is that they both hate Nichiren who they think is the cause of all the problems
I have developed a trust in Nichiren so it grieves me to hear such vilification of such a Great person,messenger sage, boddhistava Buddha, Thus Come One Musa Sanjin Buddha, votary of the Lotus Sutra etc
Blatant Hypocrisy staring us in the face
"And Mark, clearly I wouldn't be advocating chanting the Daimoku, the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's if I thought they weren't valid"
And in just about in her next breath Blanche says
https://www.reddit.com/r/sgiwhistleblowers/comments/4aj3yk/basic_housekeeping_no_promoting_of_religion_here/
"We are not creating a forum for any of that here. Chanting is an unhealthy practice that can create an endorphin dependency habit that can be difficult to break, just like any habit. The life of the person chanting the magic chant is passing him/her by just as surely as the life of the opium addict lying on a couch in thrall to beautiful drug-induced visions. We do not condone that sort of time-wasting here."
"Nichiren promoted attachments; this is the antithesis of Buddhism. Nichiren corrupted and perverted Buddhism for his own gain, because of his own narcissism, in service to his own bad temper and ego. Those who hand-wave away Nichiren's murderous fascist declarations are doing no one any favors - they're really no different from the neo-Nazis who insist that Hitler had a lot of really good ideas. We do not condone that sort of hatefulness here."
It is ironic how similar Blanch's ego and tendencies are in how she describes Nichiren.
She has become like the monstrous thing that she accuses Nichiren of ...scary. It would be safer for her to focus on constructive criticisms of the SGI. When it comes to slandering Nichiren she has stepped over the boundary into dangerous territory
Nichiren has some kind words that are applicable for the SGI whisteblowers
"What fortune is mine to expiate in one lifetime the offenses of slandering the Law I have accumulated from the infinite past! How delighted I am to serve Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of teachings, whom I have never seen! I pray that before anything else I can guide and lead the ruler and those others who persecuted me. I will tell the Buddha about all the disciples who have aided me,"
On Repaying Debts of Gratitude
We should follow Nichirens example and pray for Sgi Whistleblowers and especially the SGI that they have become so much alike in their disdain for Nichiren
"This is irrelevant to the post or its discussion, it's also misrepresenting the authors of these sites from what I have heard and read."
ReplyDeleteIf this is what you have heard and read but not understood then you make as much sense as the blathering idiot Tim Janakos graduate of Soka University of America
Read what Nichien has to say, this may bring some clarity to your muddled mind and then may you wake up, start using your head and start employing resources that are available to you, like this Gosho that speaks volumes. From what you have so far said I cannot see that you know the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's teachings
"ON examination [of the Lotus Sutra], we find that those who are born in this land and believe in this sutra when it is propagated in the Latter Day of the Law will be subjected to hatred and jealousy even greater than that which arose in the lifetime of the Thus Come One. In that age, the master who taught and converted the people was the Buddha, and his disciples were great bodhisattvas and arhats. Moreover, the Buddha expounded the Lotus Sutra only after he had developed and trained the living beings who were to hear it, including the human and heavenly beings, the four kinds of believers, and the nonhuman beings such as the eight kinds of beings. Still, many of them harbored hatred and jealousy.
Now, in the Latter Day of the Law, though the teaching, the people’s capacity, and the time for propagation are in accord, we must expect all the more hostility. For this is the age when quarrels and disputes prevail, and the pure Law is obscured and lost.1 Moreover, the teacher is but an ordinary practitioner, and his disciples come from among evil people defiled by the three poisons. For this reason, people shun the good teacher and associate with evil teachers."
On practicing the Buddha's teachings
This is what posttraditionalbuddhism promotes
ReplyDelete5.2 IBP guest Jayarava decimates rebirth & karma
http://jayarava.blogspot.com.au/2015/01/there-is-no-life-after-death-sorry.html
This is a snippet what Nichiren has to say about rebirth and Karma.
"I saw that this person had fallen into hell, or that that person had been reborn in the world of human or heavenly beings. On the other hand, people in society were hiding the truth about the last moments of their teachers or their parents, saying only that they had been reborn in the Pure Land in the west. How pitiful that when their teacher has fallen into the evil paths of existence and is facing numerous unbearable sufferings, the disciples who remain in this world are praising his death, only making his sufferings in hell worse. They may be compared to one who clamps shut the mouth of a person guilty of a serious offense when he is being questioned, or to one who leaves another’s boil unopened so that it festers.
(The Importance of the Moment of Death)
Having witnessed the death of countless individuals, I can say with confidence that Nichiren's observations are absolutely correct. You denounce Nichiren and the Lotus Sutra at your own peril.
ReplyDeleteLl
ReplyDelete"All of the the moderators of sgi whistle blowers think like this. They see Nichiren as the source of all the problems that are going on in Nichiren Buddhism just as those who believe that ikeda is the source of the problems within the SGI and Nichikan for Nichiren Shoshu and the list goes on"
That may be true Jewelled Glow but it's still irrelevant to the resources offered. I've made that point already. Perhaps you want to read my post with a clear head and after some Daimoku before running off on a course that's completely unrelated to what's written? It would save you a lot of energy!
And Mark, clearly I wouldn't be advocating chanting the Daimoku, the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren 's if I thought they weren't valid.
Both - I have trust in people, if a faith and teaching is strong it will withstand scrutiny, that's the point. Being able to scrutinize makes people independent, such people have, in my experience much stronger faith, much deeper roots and a more resilient practice. They are much less prone to manipulation. That's the point.
Or do you want people to simply have blind faith? Is that the project here?
I have to say, it rather appears the diversionary tactic by the anonymous Gosho quoted worked. So easily diverted into discussing something that's irrelevant to the resources rather than open up a new thread to deal with that topic. How odd.
Dear anonymous: My reply was to Jewelglow. Not for a moment did I come to question your faith or motivation.
DeleteI don't know if you a part of the tricky SGI whistleblowers or someone like Blanche who may be pretending not to be part of this whistleblower project that is designed to undermine the faith of those that trust in Nichiren.
DeleteYou could even be SGI for all I know. What whistleblowers and the SGI have in common is that they both hate Nichiren who they think is the cause of all the problems
I have developed a trust in Nichiren so it grieves me to hear such vilification of such a Great person,messenger sage, boddhistava Buddha, Thus Come One Musa Sanjin Buddha, votary of the Lotus Sutra etc
Blatant Hypocrisy staring us in the face
"And Mark, clearly I wouldn't be advocating chanting the Daimoku, the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's if I thought they weren't valid"
And in just about in its next breath it says
https://www.reddit.com/r/sgiwhistleblowers/comments/4aj3yk/basic_housekeeping_no_promoting_of_religion_here/
"We are not creating a forum for any of that here. Chanting is an unhealthy practice that can create an endorphin dependency habit that can be difficult to break, just like any habit. The life of the person chanting the magic chant is passing him/her by just as surely as the life of the opium addict lying on a couch in thrall to beautiful drug-induced visions. We do not condone that sort of time-wasting here."
"Nichiren promoted attachments; this is the antithesis of Buddhism. Nichiren corrupted and perverted Buddhism for his own gain, because of his own narcissism, in service to his own bad temper and ego. Those who hand-wave away Nichiren's murderous fascist declarations are doing no one any favors - they're really no different from the neo-Nazis who insist that Hitler had a lot of really good ideas. We do not condone that sort of hatefulness here."
It is ironic how similar SGI whistleblowers ego and tendencies are in how it describes Nichiren.
IT has become like the monstrous thing that she accuses Nichiren of ...scary. It would be safer for her to focus on constructive criticisms of the SGI. When it comes to slandering Nichiren it has stepped over the boundary into dangerous territory
Nichiren has some kind words that are applicable for the SGI whisteblowers
"What fortune is mine to expiate in one lifetime the offenses of slandering the Law I have accumulated from the infinite past! How delighted I am to serve Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of teachings, whom I have never seen! I pray that before anything else I can guide and lead the ruler and those others who persecuted me. I will tell the Buddha about all the disciples who have aided me,"
On Repaying Debts of Gratitude
We should follow Nichirens example and pray for Sgi Whistleblowers and especially the SGI that they have become so much alike in their disdain for Nichiren how ironic
"If this is what you have heard and read but not understood then you make as much sense as the blathering idiot Tim Janakos graduate of Soka University of America
ReplyDeleteRead what Nichien has to say, this may bring some clarity to your muddled mind and then may you wake up, start using your head and start employing resources that are available to you, like this Gosho that speaks volumes. From what you have so far said I cannot see that you know the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's teachings."
Perhaps Jeweled Glow, I should be surprised that with your superior knowledge of the Sutra and Nichiren's writings, you didn't spot the paraphrase in my post. Perhaps your greater clarity blinded you to such a small detail. However here it is:
"Wondering how to resolve this dilemma, I made a vow. I decided that I would not heed the claims of these eight or ten schools, but would do as the Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai did and let the sutras themselves be my sole teacher, in this way determining which of the various teachings of the Buddha’s lifetime are superior and which are inferior. With this in mind, I began to read through all the sutras." (Repaying Debts of Gratitude - SGI version for convenience of posting).
What Nichiren is undertaking here is a critical analysis using the Sutras as his guide. Later he sets out his approach, which he restates in several writings ( Rely on the Law...). Now compare the above Gosho and his approach with the relevant part of my post:
"Reading the Lotus Sutra directly, chanting Namu myoho renge kyo and reading and pondering what Nichiren actually wrote and taught (as opposed to the conditioned, misinterpreted and selectively quoted version on offer in the SGI), would I believe, be a very good place to start."
Or perhaps you are going to tell my that my paragraph is incompatible with Nichiren's? If so, by all means explain why but please not as an flame response, reasonable debate is welcome.
Blatant Hypocrisy staring us in the face
Delete"And Mark, clearly I wouldn't be advocating chanting the Daimoku, the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's if I thought they weren't valid"
And in just about in her next breath Blanche says
https://www.reddit.com/r/sgiwhistleblowers/comments/4aj3yk/basic_housekeeping_no_promoting_of_religion_here/
"We are not creating a forum for any of that here. Chanting is an unhealthy practice that can create an endorphin dependency habit that can be difficult to break, just like any habit. The life of the person chanting the magic chant is passing him/her by just as surely as the life of the opium addict lying on a couch in thrall to beautiful drug-induced visions. We do not condone that sort of time-wasting here."
"Nichiren promoted attachments; this is the antithesis of Buddhism. Nichiren corrupted and perverted Buddhism for his own gain, because of his own narcissism, in service to his own bad temper and ego. Those who hand-wave away Nichiren's murderous fascist declarations are doing no one any favors - they're really no different from the neo-Nazis who insist that Hitler had a lot of really good ideas. We do not condone that sort of hatefulness here."
It is ironic how similar Blanch's ego and tendencies are in how she describes Nichiren.
She has become like the monstrous thing that she accuses Nichiren of ...scary. It would be safer for her to focus on constructive criticisms of the SGI. When it comes to slandering Nichiren she has stepped over the boundary into dangerous territory
Nichiren has some kind words that are applicable for the SGI whisteblowers
"What fortune is mine to expiate in one lifetime the offenses of slandering the Law I have accumulated from the infinite past! How delighted I am to serve Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of teachings, whom I have never seen! I pray that before anything else I can guide and lead the ruler and those others who persecuted me. I will tell the Buddha about all the disciples who have aided me,"
On Repaying Debts of Gratitude
We should follow Nichirens example and pray for Blanche and her cohorts
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNoel, much as I've got a lot of time for you, there's a problem with the assumption you've made and what you've written here:
Delete"Blatant Hypocrisy staring us in the face
"And Mark, clearly I wouldn't be advocating chanting the Daimoku, the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's if I thought they weren't valid"
And in just about in her next breath Blanche says
https://www.reddit.com/r/sgiwhistleblowers/comments/4aj3yk/basic_housekeeping_no_promoting_of_religion_here/"
I'm not Blanche (or at least I hope not - no disrespect Blanche!). And for clarity nor am I a contributor or authors on any of those sites, I am completely unaffiliated to either.
What I am is simply a person who stumbled on some information and resources I found useful and wondered if others would too, so I shared them. If you don't, fine, I'm cool with that. I'm not threatened by contrary opinions nor is my faith, the latter of which is kept fresh and vibrant by such.
What I do however find slightly strange is how you guys can all pile in without reading posts properly and making false assumptions and be so willing to take discussion away from being about the shenanigans of organizations (which this thread seemed to be about) and make it instead about a wider discussion about faith.
I'm not saying the latter isn't valid by the way, just that it seems completely inappropriate to the thread or the resources that were offered.
I have to say that with such brittle reactions, you make Blanche's position (which I don't agree with BTW) more credible. I may not agree with her but I certainly respect what she has to say and the way she goes about saying it. Same goes with the guys over on NTB.
I think sometimes we forget that we're all imperfect and that tendency seems more marked in religious folk generally, at least the ones who shout most about their faiths. Is it any wonder faith has died out in so many people?
We should perhaps look to ourselves first before trying to wrestle our shadows in the other...but isn't that the beauty of having way to observe our minds? If we really believe it, perhaps we should start using it!
What is it Nichiren said "The significance of the Buddha's appearance in the world, lay in his behavior as a human being"...
I think you are a bit paranoid anonymous because as I already stated, "My reply was to Jewelglow. Not for a moment did I come to question your faith or motivation."
ReplyDeleteObviously, Noel did confuse you with Jewelglow. Regardless, I think that Noel's criticism of Post Traditional Buddhist is valid.
Thanks for clarifying Mark, my apologies for mistaking your post. As previously, I've a lot of time for Noel and also for you (and indeed this blog).
ReplyDeleteSorry anomomous I accidentally replied to the wrong anonymous . I'm sure you can find a nice name to represent yourself at Eagle Peak. I will copy and paste what I sent to the right anomomous that I believe is Blanche
ReplyDeleteNo worries Noel, you're right there are so many Anonymouses! Thanks for your suggestion to choose a name instead! :)
ReplyDeleteThe post traditional Buddhists only appreciate the Two Truths of Buddhism, Temporary Existence and Non-Substantiality (Only go so far as Nagarjuna). Tientai, Dengyo, and Nichiren embraced the Three Truths, having realized the Truth of the Middle Way which explains that the true nature of life and all phenomena is that they are neither non-substantial nor temporary, though they display attributes of both. This accounts perfectly for karma and rebirth through the Three Existences (past, present and future).
ReplyDelete