How easy to win the debate

When I supply a quote from Nichiren's writings before his exile on Sado, SGI members retort, "As for my teachings, regard those before my exile to the province of Sado as equivalent to the Buddha’s pre-Lotus Sutra teachings." Were this passage misunderstood or taken out of context, we would have to abandon such seminal teachings as the Rissho Ankoku Ron [On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land] and The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra.

Point # 1: Most of the 200 + passages of proof of the identity of and Nichiren's reverence for the Original Eternal Buddha [Shakyamuni] are from during or after Sado. This proves that Nichiren never wavered in his teachings or gratitude for this Buddha.

Point # 2. I suggest that in order to avoid the Buddhist sin of hypocrisy that SGI cease teaching your members such Gosho as Attaining Buddhahood in This Lifetime, A Ship to Cross the Sea of Suffering, The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra, and Establishing the Correct Law for the Peace of the Land. 

Soka Gakkai members and Nichiren Shoshu members and priests are wardens of hell

"In Japan today, many people claim they have mastered the practice of concentration and insight. But is there anyone who has actually encountered the three obstacles and four devils? The statement “If one falls under their influence, one will be led into the paths of evil” indicates not only the three evil paths but also the worlds of human and heavenly beings, and in general, all of the nine worlds. Therefore, with the exception of the Lotus Sutra, all of the sutras—those of the Flower Garland, Āgama, Correct and Equal, and Wisdom periods, and the Nirvana and Mahāvairochana sutras—will lead people toward the paths of evil. Also, with the exception of the Tendai school, the adherents of the seven other schools are in reality wardens of hell who drive others toward the evil paths. Even in the Tendai school are found those who profess faith in the Lotus Sutra, yet actually lead others toward the pre-Lotus Sutra teachings. They, too, are wardens of hell who cause people to fall into the evil paths." -- Letter to the Brothers

"There is no sacrifice in Buddhsim" -- SGI leader

"None of you who declare yourselves to be my disciples should ever give way to cowardice. Neither should you allow concern for your parents, wife, or children to hold you back, or be worried about your property. Since countless kalpas in the past you have thrown away your life more times than the number of dust particles of the land for the sake of your parents, your children, or your lands. But not once have you given up your life for the Lotus Sutra. You may have tried to practice its teachings to some extent, but whenever you were persecuted, you backslid and ceased to live by the sutra. That is like boiling water only to pour it into cold water, or like trying to strike fire but giving up halfway. Each and every one of you should be certain deep in your heart that sacrificing your life for the Lotus Sutra is like exchanging rocks for gold or dung for rice."

"I certainly support Mark's advice if you are already chanting if not why not try?"

Anonymous March 12, 2016 at 2:27 AM

"I certainly support Mark's advice if you are already chanting if not why not try?

You might try another approach and say calmly that you are puzzled by the differences in SGI's teaching during different periods.

You will find lots of information that points out those changes of doctrine/faith in SGI Whistle blowers and also some threads in ARBN (Alt religion Buddhism Nichiren). If you too find that SGI's own publications are inconsistent with each other you could then say that SGI doesn't seem to be and organization that knows what it believes from one moment to the next. You could reference examples from sources that have good & reliable citations.

Personally, I wouldn't get into a dispute with you friend, if the "poison has penetrated deeply" as the Lotus Sutra says then they're unlikely to "take the good medicine" that will cure them, very easily.

If they're deeply in then SGI teaching will have programmed them to respond to any legitimate challenges not by thinking about it and evaluating it fairly but by ignoring the facts and focussing on your reasons for challenging.

In your friends's head, they may think that your motivation is any one of number of supposed evil or deluded tactics to challenge their faith in the organisation and its "mentor".

You have to understand that for people that have got deeply in, they have completely blurred the lines between the SGI, it's leaders and Nichiren 's teaching.

It doesn't matter that these are very different things, they have been taught and encouraged to think of them as the same thing. They have also been taught that if they are practicing correctly they will meet people who oppose their faith. Put thus together and it means that to a dedicated SGI follower, resisting your challenge and successfully ignoring or explaining away the inconsistencies, however flimsily done, will be taken as a "victory" in their Faith and their practice of Buddhism.

It doesn't matter how reasonable the critique of SGI, its mentors and their teaching. It doesn't matter how variant SGI fantasy is from the reality of Nichiren's teaching or Buddhism in general.

It can be really hard for people who have been deeply suckered into the SGI to separate the legitimate faith & practice that the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren expounded from illegitimate (and sometimes harmful) "teaching" about that faith and practice. These types of SGI, its mentors and leaders as being knowledgeable, authoritative and correct even when they're demonstrably not.

I've seen really capable, intelligent and articulate people fail to see glaring contradictions in what they were basing their faith and practice on 10 years ago to what they are now. I've even seen them get rid of books etc. that could have helped them sense check the present with the past because SGI leaders had told them that these old SGI publications were a form of attachment (and of course one shouldn't be attached!).

You can see how it works, erasure of history, making it hard to compare and judge. Being able to keep even smart people from looking and questioning. Conflating Buddhist faith and practice with an organization and it's leaders and making ever challenge to the latter an "attack" on the former. SGI member internalised self-censorship. But just enough "normal" to make it all seem OK.

It's a tricky one, which brings us back to Marks advice..."

"Reverently make this teaching your own, and transmit it as an axiom of faith for future generations."

Nichiren teaches:

"It is the same with Nichiren’s disciples and lay supporters. The Lotus Sutra reads, “Since hatred and jealousy toward this sutra abound even when the Thus Come One is in the world, how much more will this be so after his passing?” It also reads, “It will face much hostility in the world and be difficult to believe.” The Nirvana Sutra states, “By suffering an untimely death, rebuke, curses or humiliation, beatings with a whip or rod, imprisonment, starvation, adversity, or other minor hardships in this lifetime, one can avoid falling into hell.” The Parinirvāna Sutra says: “They may be poorly clad and poorly fed, seek wealth in vain, be born to an impoverished and lowly family or one with erroneous views, or be persecuted by their sovereign. They may be subjected to various other sufferings and retributions. It is due to the blessings obtained by protecting the Law that they can diminish in this lifetime their suffering and retribution.” -- Letter to the Brothers  "Reverently make this teaching your own, and transmit it as an axiom of faith for future generations."

and in the same writing:

"The doctrine of three thousand realms in a single moment of life revealed in the fifth volume of Great Concentration and Insight is especially profound. If you propagate it, devils will arise without fail. If they did not, there would be no way of knowing that this is the correct teaching. One passage from the same volume reads: “As practice progresses and understanding grows, the three obstacles and four devils emerge in confusing form, vying with one another to interfere . . . One should be neither influenced nor frightened by them. If one falls under their influence, one will be led into the paths of evil. If one is frightened by them, one will be prevented from practicing the correct teaching.” This statement not only applies to me, but also is a guide for my followers. Reverently make this teaching your own, and transmit it as an axiom of faith for future generations."

How did Nikko Shonin view Nichiren Daishonin?

"In order to make sure which is the right teaching for attaining Buddhahood, I listened to the preachings of various priests. As a result, I have come to believe in the Lotus Sutra, in which it is expounded that Nichiren Shonin is the Bodhisattva Jogyo commanded by Sakyamuni Buddha, Lord of the Saha World and parent of all living beings, to appear in the Latter Days of the Law as a messenger of the Buddha with the duty of propagating the Lotus Sutra."

My contention

According to SGI, Nikken, before he became High Priest, hired a prostitute in Seattle. Hiroe Clow was the witness and officer Sprinkle was the police officer who supposedly interviewed Nikken right after the alleged incident. The Nichiren Shoshu claims that both Hiroe Clow and officer Sprinkle were bribed to testify against Nikken by the Soka Gakkai to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars.  

My contention is that the late Hiroe Clow and Mr. Sprinkle may well have Swiss bank accounts but that still fails to prove the DaiGohonzon true or that Daisaku Ikeda is Enlightened.

"Soka Gakkai has responded, but with insults, abuse and slander... never with doctrinal proof."

Julian:

If Mr. Daisaku Ikeda is really as bad as some contributors to a.r.b.n would have the world believe that, for me, proves at least one thing... if a cult at all, far from being a personality cult, SGI is, in fact, an anti-personality cult.

SGI is a strong, well organised, group of people actually bringing about world peace in spite of the variety of individuals that make it up.

How can that be? Only because SGI is an organisation of common mortals, ordinary human beings, united in love and faith in the Lotus Sutra.

The simple fact that an organisation such as SGI exists in our lifetime is a (rare) cause for joy. "This, my land, remains safe and unharmed,... My pure land is indestructible." --Lotus Sutra. Chapter 16.

Mark Herrick:

Your friend and fellow memba', Kathy - "Queen of Da Nile" - Ruby, would disagree with you here..... She claims that the Lotus Sutra has lost its power in the Latter Day. How come you guys can't seem to get your doctrine straight???? I mean you're so well organized and all....

AND....... If you are united in love and faith in the Lotus Sutra, you must now be a memba' of a Shakaymuni Cult too. After all, who preached the Lotus Sutra? Please don't tell us it was really Nichiren in disguise. You were all too quick to post a warning about us being members of a Shakaymuni cult.

AND...... If you are united in love and faith in the Lotus Sutra, how can you continue to advocate that Nichiren is the Eternal Buddha? I mean, where is it in the Lotus Sutra that Shakaymuni predicts that the Eternal Buddha is to appear in the Latter Age to spread the Dharma? Have you even ever read the ENTIRE Lotus Sutra?

SO THEREFORE...... if you claim to be united in love and faith with the Lotus Sutra, but fail to practice as it teaches then you are ONE BIG LIAR.

I am astounded by the self deception that the Gakkai is capable of, and the slander you stoop to in criticizing us who are trying to spread the orthodox Dharma. We rely on the Three Proofs that our founder and leader in Mappo, Nichiren Daishonin, taught us. Documentary, Theoretical and Actual. All our posts use the Three Proofs. None of the Gakkai's posts use the Three Proofs.

All we are asking is for you to supply proof of the Gakkai's doctrine using the Three Proofs. So far, in the last three years of this online debate the Gakkai has failed to do so. Oh, don't get me wrong, the Gakkai has responded, but with insults, abuse and slander... never with doctrinal proof. Kathy even claims to have beaten me in debate about the power of the Lotus Sutra. Of course she didn't beat me, all she did was change the subject and say that we taught that the Daimoku was not the primary practice, which is of course a complete lie and fabrication. We chant the Daimoku morning and night. Anyways, its all more lies and obfuscation to cover the truth. We supplied over one hundred quotes and excerpts from the Gosho where Nichiren stated unequivacably that it was the Lotus Sutra that we worship and saves us in Mappo. When Kathy had her back to the wall she saught to change the subject. Now you go and ADMIT the Gakkai is united in love and faith in the Lotus Sutra.

The Gakkai is a psuedo-religion based on the teachings of Makaguchi, Toda and Ikeda. There is little that the Gakkai actually has in common with Nichiren, except that they coopted his Daimoku and Gohonzon as a cloak for their real teachings. Makaguchi admitted that he never wanted to be a Nichiren Shoshu priest becasue then he would have to follow Nichiren Shoshu doctrine exactly without adding any of his own *personal* ideas, which we know is the entire theory of value creation. The Gakkai from its inception has been based on lies.

Go on Julian try and refute me using Sutra passage and Gosho passages. Try. I doubt you can. I do expect you to insult and abuse me. You have shown yourself perfectly capable of doing this in the past. Come on Julian, I dare you to try and debate me using scriptural proof. When you can't, and instead resort to insults then you will be exposed. The entire arbn will know then that you cannot refute the truth.

And Julian, please don't forget that it was Susan Starr who  started arbn. And just so you don't revise history, it was to provide a forum for doctrinal debate and discussion. So far we have seen little debate from any of the Gakkai, what we have seen is plenty of insults.

I am waiting Julian.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo

Mark Herrick

Only we are of the same mind as Nichiren

Nichiren on the General Transmission:

"Answer: In this passage, Shakyamuni Buddha explains that he is entrusting to the Bodhisattvas of the Earth, his original disciples, the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo, which is the essence of the Lotus Sutra. Shakyamuni, who attained enlightenment countless kalpas in the past, says elsewhere, "By now the original vows that I made have already been fulfilled. I have converted all living beings and caused them all to enter the Buddha way." Thus, he has already fulfilled his earlier vow. Then, intending to charge his disciples with the task of accomplishing widespread propagation in the fifth five hundred years after his death, he called forth the Bodhisattvas of the Earth and entrusted them with the heart of the sutra, the lotus of the entity of the essential teaching. This passage represents the ultimate purpose for which Shakyamuni Buddha appeared in the world, the secret Law that he attained in the place of meditation. It is this passage that gives proof of the lotus of the entity that, for those of us who live in the Latter Day of the Law, assures the attainment of Buddhahood in both the present and future."

and

"It is the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo that constitute the Great Pure Law that will be spread widely in the Latter Day of the Law. And it is the great bodhisattvas who sprang up from, the earth in numbers equal to the dust particles of a thousand worlds who were entrusted with the task of spreading it abroad. Therefore Nan-yueh, T’ien-t’ai and Dengyo, though in their hearts they understood the truth, left it to the leader and teacher of the Latter Day to spread it widely, while they themselves refrained from doing so."

Nichiju interprets the General Transmission:

"Among the disciples of the school of Nichiju, nobody should be chosen, directly or indirectly as an heir disciple. However, anybody among the priests or the laymen of my congregation that spreads the teaching in Kyoto and swears that other sects are the root of all evils and that only the Hokke Sect makes us enter Nirvana can be my disciple. And if candidates are equally gifted, they should propagate during the summer, practicing in turn. You should consider a person who spreads the teaching like this as the true disciple of Nichiju and Nichiren Shonin. So in the days to come, this shall be my will."

Nichiren on the Specific Transmission:

"Accordingly, at the present time in the Latter Day of the Law, other than the envoy of the Thus Come One, there can be no one who understands and produces this passage as proof of the lotus of the entity. Truly it is a passage of secret meaning. Truly it is a matter of great concern. Truly it is to be honored and admired. Namu-myoho-renge-kyo, Namu-myoho-renge-kyo!"

and

"Bodhisattva Superior Practices received the water of the wisdom of the Mystic Law from the Thus Come One Shakyamuni and causes it to flow into the wasteland of the people’s lives in the evil world of the latter age. This is the function of wisdom. Shakyamuni Buddha transferred this teaching to Bodhisattva Superior Practices, and now Nichiren propagates it in Japan. With regard to the transfer of teachings, it is divided into two categories: general and specific. If you confuse the general with the specific even in the slightest, you will never be able to attain Buddhahood and will wander in suffering through endless transmigrations of births and deaths."

Commentary

"The leader and teacher of the Latter Day" is specific to one man, Nichiren Daishonin (Bodhisattva Jogyo). "Bodhisattvas of the Earth" is general to all those who follow Nichiren. There are not superior and inferior Bodhisattvas of the Earth. The responsibilities of laymen and priests are blurred in Mappo and there is only one High Priest and one leader, Nichiren Daishonin.

Question: The Lotus Sutra states that there are many leaders of his own great assembly with various large and small retinues of followers. Wouldn't that mean Daisaku Ikeda, the High Priest of the Nichiren Shoshu, the Chief Bishop of Minobu. Nikkyo Niwano, and others? 

Answer:  At this time, there is only Nichiren Daishonin and his followers. Those who follow Nichiren Daishonin and are of the same mind as he ["The bodhisattvas, as numerous as the dust particles of a thousand worlds, who emerged from beneath the earth and (who are) the followers of Shakyamuni Buddha present in our lives"] are indeed leaders of his own great assembly with various large and small retinues.

Daisaku Ikeda, the High Priest of Nichiren Shoshu, the Chief Bishop of Minobu, Nikkyo Niwano, and Nissen however, are not of the same mind as Nichiren. Nikkyo Niwano, despite chanting the daimoku, failed to even acknowledge Nichiren Daishonin as the leader of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth. Daisaku Ikeda and the High Priest of Nichiren Shoshu throw out Shakyamuni Buddha. The Bishop of Minobu allows all sorts of sundry practices and a false transmission between priests and lay believers [not to mention interfaith] and Nissen proclaimed his joy to have been born in a Buddha-less world.

Since they are not of the same mind as Nichiren and are not his followers, they are not Bodhisattvas of the Earth. Since they are not Bodhisattvas of the Earth, they are not even inheritors of the general transmission. 

SGI, don't you believe Nichiren?

"On the other hand, even if one does not commit a single evil deed throughout one’s entire lifetime, and observes the five precepts, the eight precepts, the ten precepts, the ten good precepts, the two hundred and fifty precepts, the five hundred precepts, or countless numbers of precepts; even if one learns all the other sutras by heart, makes offerings to all the other Buddhas and bodhisattvas, and accumulates immeasurable merit, if one but fails to put one’s faith in the Lotus Sutra; or if one has faith in it, but considers that it ranks on the same level as the other sutras and the teachings of the other Buddhas; or if one recognizes its superiority, but constantly engages in other religious disciplines, practicing the Lotus Sutra only from time to time; or if one associates on friendly terms with priests of the Nembutsu, who do not believe in the Lotus Sutra but slander it; or if one thinks that those who insist the Lotus Sutra does not suit the people’s capacity in the latter age are guilty of no fault, then all the merit of the countless good acts one has performed throughout one’s life will suddenly vanish. Moreover, the blessings resulting from one’s practice of the Lotus Sutra will for some time be obscured, and one will fall into the great citadel of the Avīchi hell as surely as rain falls from the sky or rocks tumble down from the peaks into the valleys."

Remember when Soka Gakkai top leaders were boasting "three hundred thousand" [or more] American SGI members

The following were 1996 and 1997 total paid and/or requested World Tribune circulation figures -- actual number of single issues published nearest to filing date: 

1996 -- 38,430* WT 11/1/96, p. 2

1997 -- 24,500* WT 10/24/97, p. 2

This was the most accurate reflection of active and semi-active SGI members and in this one year alone, nearly 14,000 WT subscribers either left the Gakkai or become so disaffected that they no longer subscribed to its principal publication. Things were never as rosy in the Gakkai as their spinmeisters led us to believe. Can we believe anything they report? 

* The numbers are actually smaller because many leaders and members receive more than one 
subscription [sometimes up to five], at the urging of their leaders.

JWatch

The Gakkai's media watchdog is JWatch, a large group of young SGI Japanese lawyers who watch the media and attempt to steer journalists/writers "in the right direction". They do not mention that they are affiliated with the SGI. They also "watch" subversive groups such as the Nichiren Shoshu. Nichiren Shu, Kempon Hokke, and Independents. Their stated aim is to right the wrongs of the media regarding articles that promote discrimination against AIDS patients and homosexuals, those condoning child and spousal abuse, ultranationalism/fascism, anti religious freedom, and last but not least, articles critical of the SGI. Their true and ultimate mission is to garner sympathy for and stifling criticism of the SGI. They would be better off spending their time reforming the draconian and authoritarian SGI.

Wow!

Sky Jackson may suffer a similar fate to Nichiu the leper

Ordinary peoples' tongues burn when exposed to fire and others' may become cancerous. Leprosy and bullous disease is associated with slander of the Law. Reality is as it is. It is cause and effect and the teachings of Buddhism. It is very hard to realize that one is a slanderer of the Law. It is difficult to believe that one has met and practices a counterfeit Law because of one's own past slanders. The Nichiren Shoshu and Soka Gakkai teachings are the counterfeit Law for the Latter Day since it is based on a counterfeit Object of Worship and counterfeit teachings. Nichiu forged the Nichiren Shoshu Object of Worship and became a leper. NST and SGI members are no longer innocent or unaware of the reality. Therefore, they are complicit. If they do not repudiate the Nichiren Shoshu, the DaiGohonzon, and the Soka Gakkai teachings, they will suffer a similar fate to Nichiu in this life or the next.

Soka Gakkai brainwashing technique

"Compel your members to accept some truths while rejecting others." -- SGI Senior Leader

Singapore Soka Gakkai members are horribly confused

http://www.hosshakukempon.com/digressions---reader-contribution.html

"Ex-General Director had also repeatedly shared since the year 2008 in youth prayer meetings and dialogues that Singapore must strive to be the true model organisation for worldwide Kosen-rufu. He also arrogantly made the following remark to belittle senior leaders in Japan. He mentioned that the Japanese senior leaders were born close to Sensei in this lifetime because they did not receive strict training from Sensei in their past lives. In retrospect, we are born far away from our mentor because we had received strict training from our mentor in our past lives." (Source: Reader’s Personal Findings)

Do you agree Sky Jackson?

"Fearlessly following Sensei is our ticket out of hell for all eternity"

"Fearlessly following Sensei with an open heart and a seeking mind is in fact our ticket out of hell, for all eternity. His life epitomizes the essence of what Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism is all about, in all aspects. That's why I will always respect and follow him. Like the story about the fly that can travel a thousand miles by clinging to the tail of a thoroughbred horse, You and I are both insignificant beings who nevertheless have the potential to attain enlightenment in this lifetime by simply following Sensei." -- Dick "Wiley Bad" Powell proud 40 year SGI member

Why follow those who make so many errors?

Excerpts of High Priest Nikken's Lectures in Shinyo Magazine issue 20...

"The Dai-mandala, the true object of worship, is in the depths of the Lotus Sutra in the Chapter of the Treasure Tower."

Even the lowly HBS priests and reverends know that the Gohonzon was revealed in the Eight Chapters of the Lotus Sutra from the fifteenth to the twenty-second chapters and especially in the sixteenth chapter. At best, in the 11th Chapter, the Gohonzon is apprehended like the  first light of the sun before rising from behind the horizon. Having made such a fundamental error, my question is, why follow anyone other than Shakyamuni Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin, least of all the Nichiren Shoshu High Priest and Daisaku Ikeda?

"We don't worship little baby Buddhas" -- vapid SGI member on you tube

"And on another occasion the little retreat where I was living, where I had enshrined a statue of Shakyamuni Buddha as the object of devotion, and where I stored the texts of the various sutras, was attacked and destroyed, and the statue of the Buddha and sutra texts were not only trampled upon, but thrown into the mud and filth. And a scroll of the Lotus Sutra, which I had placed in the breast of my robe, was snatched forth and I was mercilessly beaten over the head with it. These heinous crimes were carried out not because of any ancient enmity harbored against me or because of any offense I had recently committed, but solely because I worked to propagate the teachings of the Lotus Sutra."

"Shakyamuni Buddha, our father and mother, who is endowed with the three virtues of sovereign, teacher and parent, is the very one who encourages us, the people driven out by all other Buddha, saying, "I alone can save them." The debt of gratitude we owe him is deeper than the ocean, weightier than the earth, vaster than the sky. Though we were to pluck out our two eyes and place them before him as an offering until there were more eyes there than stars in the sky, though we were to strip off our skins and spread them out by the hundreds of thousands of ten thousands until they blanketed the ceiling of heaven, though we were to give him our tears as offerings of water and present him with flowers for the space of a hundred billion kalpas, though we were to offer him our flesh and blood for innumerable kalpas, until our flesh piled up like mountains and our blood overflowed like vast seas, we could never repay a fraction of the debt we owe to this Buddha! (MW vol. 4, The Learned Doctor Shan-wu-wei)

"However, later seeking and entering the deep cave, you see a single hermitage. The voices of the reading and reciting of the Hokekyo echo against blue heaven and the words of discussing the doctrine of the One Vehicle are heard in the midst of the mountains. Informing [them, of your presence and requesting] admittance, you enter the chamber, place your mother's bones before the Master of Teachings Lord Shakya, cast your five limbs to the ground, press your palms together, and opening your two eyes, look up to the Holy Face: joy overflows your body and the pain of your heart suddenly ceases." (On Forgetting Ones Copy Of The Lotus Sutra, NOPPA Translation) 

"Oooohhh what a slanderer. He has four Gohonzons" -- SGI Dodo bird member

Nikko Shonin had four Nichiren Gohonzons.