Namu Myoho renge kyo is not the same as Nam Myoho renge kyo
Not only is context important but words have absolute meanings in themselves. Fourteens does not mean the same thing as four teens. “Fourteens always come out”, is not the same as "four teens always come out”. “The moon shines nice” is not the same as” the moonshine’s nice”. Words are important to convey meanings. Small changes in a word’s or phrase’s structure or sound changes the entire meaning and import of the word or phrase. The reality of the slanderous Soka Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu members who chant Nam Myoho renge kyo contrasted with the disciples and believers of Nichiren who chant Namu Myoho renge kyo is proof of my assertion.
And yet again, Mark returns to one of his favourite golden geese. This has been addressed time and time again by myself (http://nichirenbuddhist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/24-mantra-and-mandala.html) and others, with reference to the Japanese pronounciation system, including the fact that NA-MU and NA-M are both seven syllables and represent seven characters, but Mark does love a bit of pedantry.
ReplyDelete(1) Nichiren often refers to the benefits of chanting the five or seven characters, so even without saying NAMU you will receive the benefits of the Lotus Sutra. Surely if you do decide to add the two syllables that represent the two characters for “NA-MU” or the two syllables and two characters “NA-M”, the most important thing is always your intention of devotion to the sutra rather than a slight difference in pronounciation.
(2) I’ve seen some videos online of non-SGI buddhists chanting “NA-MU” but their pronounciation sounds like the Japanese pronounciation of “NA-MA” not “NA-MU”. Are they losing any benefit because of this mispronounciation? I don’t think so, but Mark may not be so forgiving.
(3) Mark often refers to the loss of a GOLDEN BUDDHA, because of this slight difference between "NA-MU" and "NA-M". But if each character of the Lotus Sutra is a GOLDEN BUDDHA, why does he recommend that it is acceptable during the ESSENTIAL SERVICES OF THE LOTUS SUTRA to recite Chapters 2 and 16 in English or Japanese? (http://markrogow.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/know-what-you-are-reciting-everyday.html)
Does Mark not care about the GOLDEN BUDDHAS from within the Lotus Sutra as much as he does those that reside in the Sanskrit word for devotion. I can only assume Mark's version of the Gosho include Nichiren's recommendation that it is okay to recite the prose sections of the “Expedient Means” and “Life Span” chapters in English or Japanese?
Nichiren buddhist. Once again your post proves that your ideas of what the true teachings are do not accord with what Nichiren and the Lotus Sutra state. Namu is not japanese. Learn the language,read the gosho and stop with your ridiculous opinions. You twitter like a shoshu/gakkai parrot. Your position is untenable. Gassho 信恵
ReplyDeleteThe Importance of the Character Mu
ReplyDeleteOnly Namu Myoho renge kyo is correct because Namu Myoho renge kyo is the personal name of the Supreme Law. Neither Nam Myoho renge kyo, Namo Miao Fa Lien Hua Ching, Namas Saddharma pundarika sutra nor Devotion to the Scripture of the Lotus Blossom of the Wonderful Dharma is the name of the Supreme Law.
Even were Nichiren to have written the Daimoku in brail, it is written Namu Myoho renge kyo. Nichiren never wrote Nam Myoho renge kyo, not once in thirty years, not on his Gohonzons nor in his writings.
“And when the two characters for Namu are prefixed to Myoho-renge-kyo, or the Lotus Sutra of the Wonderful Law, we have the formula Namu-myoho-renge-kyo.” -- The Opening of the Eyes
"The jewels of this jeweled vehicle are the seven precious substances which adorn the great cart. The seven jewels are precisely the seven orifices in one's head, and these seven orifices are precisely the [seven characters] na-mu-myo-ho-ren-ge-kyo, the essential Dharma for the Final Dharma Age." -- Mounting This Jeweled Vehicle, They Directly Arrive at the Place of Enlightenment
Nichiren on discarding even a single character of the Lotus Sutra:
"A single character of the Lotus Sutra is like the great earth, which gives rise to all things. A single character is like the great ocean, which contains the water from all rivers. A single character is like the sun and moon, which illuminate all four continents.
“Now the Latter Day of the Law, is the time when the seven characters of Namu Myoho renge kyo-the heart of the twenty-eight chapters of the Lotus Sutra that Shakyamuni Buddha who had achieved enlightenment in the remote past, along with the bodhisattvas Jogyo, Muhengyo and the others is to propogate-will alone spread throughout the country.”
"In the first five hundred years of the Former Day of the Law following the Buddha’s passing, only Hinayana teachings spread, while in the next five hundred years, provisional Mahayana teachings spread. The thousand years of the Middle Day of the Law saw the rise of the theoretical teaching. In the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law, only the essential teaching spreads, but even so, the theoretical teaching should not be discarded. Nowhere in the entire Lotus Sutra do we find a passage suggesting that we should discard the first fourteen chapters, which comprise the theoretical teaching. When we distinguish between the theoretical and the essential teachings on the basis of the threefold classification of the entire body of the Buddha’s teachings, the pre-Lotus Sutra teachings were to be spread in the Former Day, and the theoretical teaching, in the Middle Day, but the Latter Day is the time to propagate the essential teaching. In the present period the essential teaching is primary, while the theoretical teaching is subordinate. But those who therefore discard the latter, saying it is not the way to enlightenment, and believe only in the former, have not yet understood the doctrine of Nichiren’s true intention. Theirs is a completely distorted view."
ReplyDelete"Thus a single word of this Lotus Sutra is as precious as a wish-granting jewel, and a single phrase is the seed of all Buddhas."
"Again, a single character equals innumerable others, for the validity of the sutra was attested to by the Buddhas of the ten directions. The treasures bestowed by a single wish-granting jewel equal those bestowed by two such jewels or by innumerable jewels. Likewise, each character in the Lotus Sutra is like a single wish-granting jewel, and the innumerable characters of the sutra are like innumerable jewels. The character myō was uttered by two tongues: the tongues of Shakyamuni and Many Treasures. The tongues of these two Buddhas are like an eight-petaled lotus flower, one petal overlapping another, on which rests a jewel, the character of myō.
The jewel of the character myō contains all the benefits that the Thus Come One Shakyamuni received by practicing the six pāramitās in his past existences: the benefits he obtained through the practice of almsgiving by offering his body to a starving tigress and by giving his life in exchange for that of a dove;9 the benefits he obtained when he was King Shrutasoma who kept his word, though it meant his death, in order to observe the precepts;10 the benefits he obtained as an ascetic called Forbearance by enduring the tortures inflicted upon him by King Kāli;11 the benefits he obtained as Prince Earnest Donor and as the ascetic Shōjari, and all his other benefits. We, the people of this evil latter age, have not formed even a single good cause, but [by bestowing upon us the jewel of myō] Shakyamuni has granted us the same benefit as if we ourselves had fulfilled all the practices of the six pāramitās. This precisely accords with his statement “Now this threefold world is all my domain, and the living beings in it are all my children.” Bound as we common mortals are by earthly desires, we can instantly attain the same virtues as Shakyamuni Buddha, for we receive all the benefits that he accumulated. The sutra reads, “Hoping to make all persons equal to me, without any distinction between us.” This means that those who believe in and practice the Lotus Sutra are equal to Shakyamuni Buddha."
"Therefore, a single word from one of these kings can destroy the kingdom or insure order within it. The edicts handed down by rulers represent a type of pure and far-reaching voice. Ten thousand words spoken by ten thousand ordinary subjects cannot equal one word spoken by a king."
"Similarly, though we gather together all the various sutras, such as the Flower Garland Sutra, the Āgama sutras, the Correct and Equal sutras, the Wisdom, Nirvana, Mahāvairochana, and Meditation sutras, they could never equal even a single character of the Lotus Sutra."
ReplyDelete"Shakyamuni Buddha and the written words of the Lotus Sutra are two different things, but their heart is one. Therefore, when you cast your eyes upon the words of the Lotus Sutra, you should consider that you are beholding the living body of the Thus Come One Shakyamuni."
"The characters of this sutra are all without exception living Buddhas of perfect enlightenment. But because we have the eyes of ordinary people, we see them as characters. For instance, hungry spirits perceive the Ganges River as fire, human beings perceive it as water, and heavenly beings perceive it as amrita. Though the water is the same, it appears differently according to one’s karmic reward from the past."
The blind cannot see the characters of this sutra. To the eyes of ordinary people, they look like characters. Persons of the two vehicles perceive them as the void. Bodhisattvas look on them as innumerable doctrines. Buddhas recognize each character as a golden Shakyamuni. This is what is meant by the passage that says, “[If one can uphold this sutra], one will be upholding the Buddha’s body.”1 Those who practice with distorted views, however, are destroying this most precious sutra. You should simply be careful that, without differing thoughts, you single-mindedly aspire to the pure land of Eagle Peak. A passage in the Six Pāramitās Sutra2 says to become the master of your mind rather than let your mind master you. I will explain in detail when I see you.
“Now this Lotus Sutra of the Wonderful Law I have been speaking of represents the true reason why all Buddhas make their advent in the world and teaches the direct way to the attainment of Buddhahood for all living beings. Shakyamuni Buddha entrusted it to his disciples, Many Treasures Buddha testified to its veracity, and the other Buddhas extended their tongues up to the Brahmā heaven, proclaiming, ‘All that you [Shakyamuni] have expounded is the truth!’ Every single character in this sutra represents the true intention of the Buddhas, and every brushstroke of it is a source of aid to those who repeat the cycle of birth and death. There is not a single word in it that is untrue."
"Even if one were to prepare a feast of a hundred flavors, if the single flavor of salt were missing, it would be no feast for a great king. Without salt, even the delicacies of land and sea are tasteless."
“The Lotus Sutra of the Wonderful Law, before which I bow my head, in its single case, with its eight scrolls, twenty-eight chapters, and 69,384 characters, is in each and every one of its characters the true Buddha who preaches the Law for the benefit of living beings.”
"Every single character in this sutra represents the true intention of the Buddhas, and every brushstroke of it is a source of aid to those who repeat the cycle of birth and death. There is not a single word in it that is untrue."
"If one discards one word or even one brushstroke of the sutra, the offense is graver than that of one who kills one’s parents ten million times over, or even of one who sheds the blood of all the Buddhas in the ten directions."
I can supply dozens more similar passages.
Were believers to chant together, some chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo and others chanting Nam Myoho renge kyo, what a discordant mess it would be. Some chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo and others chanting Nam Myoho renge kyo is one of the principle causes of Nichiren faith disunity. One may spout all the theoretical reasons in the world why Nam Myoho renge kyo is equally correct but reality and actuality trumps them all.
Throwing out the character Mu is to throw out a golden Buddha from the heart of the Lotus Sutra. Perhaps the SGI should remove the character Mu from their Gohonzons as they have from Nichiren's writings?
That there are universal meanings of sounds used in languages is called Universal Phonology and there is a field of study called Universal Linguistics. There are two studies “that supports the idea that there could be universal associations between language sounds and specific meanings.” — UNCONSCIOUS FRAMEWORKS IN YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS by Jan Reed
ReplyDeleteSome language sounds may have meanings or associations that are universal to all. For example, “According to the postulated universal language associations, two of the relations that are instinctively known to all humans and all infants are “ d ” and “ th ” as in “ those ” . According to the relationships postulated in this work, the universal language meaning of “ d ” is awe, wonder, or subordination , and the universal language meaning of ‘th ‘ ” is anger. — (Ibid)
People from almost every culture who bangs his little toe replies “Ou” or “Ah”. Sounds of sexual gratification are other examples, “ooh” or “hahh”. “Ssssss” when mimicking a snake or “tsss” when mimicking a cat’s hiss. Crying sounds are very universal, even pets understand them.
“Narrow sounds, such as /i/, as in ‘poquito’ (Spanish), ‘kitty’ (English), and ‘maomi’ (Mandarin), frequently refer to smaller beings or objects (supposed to be such since smaller creatures can only produce higher pitched sounds).” — ibid
“The theory postulates that there is a universal language instinctively known to all normal humans from birth; that the universal language meanings of all language sounds, rhythms, forms of word structure, and all grammatical structures are instinctively known to all normal human infants, and are understandable to infants from the time they are able to discriminate sounds used by their parents or care-givers to communicate with each other.”
“However, the arbitrariness of the sign is not complete. Every language has a certain amount of phonetic symbolism. There are always onomatopoeic words like whoosh and tick-tock, and this natural sound/meaning connection may bleed through to some extent into fairly large areas of vocabulary, as in English flip/ flap,/flop, clink/clank/clunk, etc. And in some languages, there are specific classes of words, sometimes called “ideophones”, where these quasi-natural sound-meaning correspondences are systematized, sometimes to a considerable extent.” — Language Log of Mark Liberman (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005437.html)
“An additional complication in the analysis of intonational units arises because of the extremely strong role played by phonetic symbolism in constraining intonational meanings. In no other aspect of language is “l’arbitraire du signe” less manifest than in intonation., and we have every reason to believe that a substantial portion of the content of the intonational lexicon of English is determined by the universal symbolic (better: metaphorical) value of tones and tone-sequences. However, there are also many clear examples of language-specific tunes, and meanings for tunes, so that some degree of arbitrariness or conventionalization must be built into the system.” — Ibid
“Rabbit”, so what! Bunny, hmm, even a dog knows “bunny”. Some words express their meaning, perfectly, the sound of the word or words uttered is a perfect expression of the meaning or phenomenon.
All language shares this mystery. That is why Namu Myoho renge kyo is such a beautiful expression of the Buddha’s enlightenment. Every Buddha knows that this is Shakyamuni’s Buddha enlightenment, whether that Buddha speaks icelandic, nepalese, french, or alien. Namo Saddharma Pundarika Sutra elicits no such understanding. The difference between Namo Saddharma Pundarika Sutra and Namu Myoho renge kyo is the difference between “rabbit” and “bunny”.
This is not a complete and exhaustive study of these principles. In conclusion, when we are talking about the Original Eternal Buddha and his Enlightenment, the sounds of his enlightenment is expressed as Namu Myoho renge kyo and he intoned these words.
Have you tried chanting Namu NB? I chanted Nam Myoho renge kyo for twenty years and Namu Myoho renge kyo for the last twenty years. You, who never chanted Namu Myoho renge kyo even once, can not tell my readers a thing about the different effects of chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo and chanting Nam Myoho renge kyo. I can. There is a world of difference. The sublime effect is as if washing one's body with fresh spring water [Namu] and washing with sewage.[Nam].
ReplyDeleteNice to see as usual that despite my response and a few questions, you fail to address any of them and resort to a handful of Gosho quotes which clarify the number of characters but not the pronounciation.
ReplyDeleteI didn’t think the number of characters, jewels or syllables was under dispute, but obviously you still prefer to misunderstand and reference Gosho which don’t clarify how to pronounce the daimoku (especially the Japanese transliteration of the Sanskrit word “namas”).
Your constant references in the Gosho to seven characters or seven jewels is immaterial because when written in Japanese or Chinese characters there are ALWAYS 7 CHARACTERS and all seven characters are vocalised during daimoku. Even the SGI's Japanese version of the Gosho and our Nichikan “No-honzon” as you refer to it, contains the seven characters, which the SGI and Nichiren Shoshu chant (or read) as “NA-M-MYO-HO-REN-GE-KYO”
I guess the issue at hand relates to whether you chant the 17 English characters or 16 English characters of the daimoku. Nichiren has NEVER WRITTEN “NAMU-MYOHO-RENGE-KYO” in the Gosho or on Gohonzon, he has written 南無妙法蓮華経. Unless there is a Gosho in which Nichiren refers to chanting the 17 letters of the daimoku, this is purely a matter of linguistics rather than Nichiren doctrine.
In 2008/2009 during a period of employment in which I was working hours that made it impossible to attend SGI meetings, I took the opportunity to spent 9 months chanting NAMU instead of NAM, but I never noticed any notable differences in my faith, benefit or persecution. Personally I think it comes down to your attitude in faith, rather than the letter “U”.
Maybe the difference you have felt since changing to “Namu” came from deepening your understanding of the Gosho and the Lotus Sutra, rather than specifically the pronounciation of daimoku.
Finally, here are a few questions that you may like to respond to, with Gosho quotes where relevant:
ReplyDelete(1) Will my benefit be less if I only chant the 5 characters of MYOHO-RENGE_KYO?
(2) If someone is chanting NAMU, but pronounces it NAMA will they get the same benefit?
(3) If chanting “NAMU” is like washing in spring water rather than sewage, where has the pollution within Nichiren Shu and the Kempon Hokke come from? Why hasn’t the purifying 17 letter daimoku led them to a correct understanding of the teachings?
(4) "If one discards one word or even one brushstroke of the sutra, the offense is graver than that of one who kills one’s parents ten million times over, or even of one who sheds the blood of all the Buddhas in the ten directions."
Which part of this quote states that it is acceptable to chant chapters 2 and 16 of the Lotus Sutra in English or Japanese? Is it okay to discard the words and brushstrokes of the sutra during the essential auxiliary practice.
(5) Are the benefits of chanting the essential practice in English or Japanese the same?
(6) You mention the confusion caused within a group if some are chanting NAM and others are chanting NAMU, but isn’t it more confusing to have some people chanting whole sections of chapters 2 and 16 in English while others are chanting in Japanese?
I addressed every one of your points in previous posts and/or comments and I will continue to do so. For now let me just say this. There is NO WAY Nichiren wished for some of his disciples to chant Nam Myoho renge kyo and others to chant Namu Myoho renge kyo. One group is certainly not composed of the disciples and believers of Nichiren because they break the unity of the Sangha. It is up to my readers and the true seekers of the way to determine which group that may be. I already know [which group it is].
ReplyDeleteI already addressed the issue of why it is Namu Myoho renge kyo many dozens of times. The formal name of the Law is Namu Myoho renge kyo not Nam Myoho renge kyo. For example many people whose formal name is "Richard" are called "Dick". Yet, for legal purposes or when receiving a driver's license, a diploma, a prestigious award, whatever, it will always be Richard. Another example is that one whose name is Richard and who has never been called Dick will never respond when someone shouts DICK in a movie theatre or in a crowded bus station.
The heart of the Lotus Sutra, Namu Myoho renge kyo, is the name of the Mystic Law of the Universe. The benefits are not the same writing or reciting the name any other way. The 2nd and 16th Chapters of the Lotus Sutra are not the heart of the Lotus Sutra. They are the body. The body may take on many different forms but the heart is always the same.
Either the leader of the chant or the group determines whether the Sutra will be chanted in English or Sino-Japanese on any particular occasion. You are creating a strawman NB.
ReplyDeleteMany times over many years when I've been in the state known as sleep paralysis these malevolent Reptilian beings start to harass me. My only defence is to chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, and it works really well in dispersing them back to where ever they come from. I never thought of saying Namu while I'm under attack. It just goes to show the power of this mantra whether one says Namu or Nam in front of Myoho renge Kyo
ReplyDeleteI bet you had been chanting Nam Myoho renge kyo a lot longer than Namu Myoho renge kyo. Even now, after 20 years, I sometimes find myself saying Nam Myoho renge kyo. before correcting myself. Maybe if we were chanting correctly from the beginning, we wouldn't have any nightmares.
ReplyDeleteYeah its really scary stuff alright. I reckon untold people have died of fright, been scared to death from these encounters and people say O they died peacefully in their sleep, if only the dead could talk,they would scare us out of our the wits.
ReplyDeleteThere is a lot information about these reptilian appearances throughout the ages. I have spoken to many people on YouTube that have had these experiences and I tell them how well Nam Myoho Lenge Kyo works for me. As soon as I get the slightest whiff of their presence the chanting starts, so far it hasn't let me down
I have some information for you regarding the pronunciation from Japanese sound pronunciation experts that you can forward onto Shinkei for a second opinion
Historical kana usage: How to read
Spellings in Historical kana usage have been unchanged all the time in spite of changes of pronunciation.
Now we are reading those spellings with modern pronunciation.
●In case of Ancient writings, the next rule is added.
む (mu) of an auxiliary verb is to be read with
ん N or M depending on what sound comes after
E.g. Na m Myoho lips are together when we pronounce M
Ko n ni chi wa lips open when we pronounce N
逢はむ→あわん awamu - awan(m)
～せむ→～せん semu - sen(m)
ありけむ→ありけん arikemu - ariken(m)
取りてむ→とりてん toritemu - toriten(m)
給ひなむ→たまいなん tamainamu - tamainan(m)
吹かむとす→ふかんとす fukamutosu - fukan(m)tosu
まかりなむずる→まかりなんずる makarinamuzuru - makarina
n(m)zuru
By the way since we are on the topic of Daimoku pronunciation the Japanese pronunciation of Renge is in between R and L but closer to L. We can say Lenge instead of Renge. It is as the Japanese do when they touch the palate with the tongue when they pronounce La Li Lu Le Lo not Ra Ri Ru RE Ro this is a mistake as is Namu Myoho Renge Kyo which should be Nam Myoho Lenge Kyo from what I have so far been able to ascertain from a non bias standpoint with information presented.
It is easier to pronounce Lenge than Renge as it rolls off the tongue and is easier to pronounce Nam Myoho Lenge Kyo than it is to pronounce Namu Myoho Renge Kyo. Why labour under unnecessary burden if it isn't necessary, isn't life already tough enough
Since I stopped chanting the daimoku, no reptile humanoids have attempted to contact me.
DeleteApparently, Mark, this guy's one of yours: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrJwia1y3ws&t=1m11s
ReplyDeleteHe's not one of us. He's chanting Nam Myoho renge kyo, not NAMU Myoho range joy. Besides, we, unlike SGI and NST, are calm and collected and we like weed.
ReplyDeleteThat is, Namu Myoho renge kyo.
DeleteSounds like "Namu myoho renge kyo" to me...
DeleteWell, he might be Nichiren Shi. Do you know why I know he is not one of us for sure? Because I know all of us and not one of US is against weed, especially for medical purposes and least of all in California.
DeleteNichiren Shu
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