'Time has rendered a perspective of conjoined twins fighting a futile battle against each other. They are the Funi-twins who are two, but not two.
In terms of doctrine, they both believe that Nichiren is the true Buddha of Mappo. They both believe that Nichiren is the true Buddha and Shakyamuni is transient. They both believe that the Dai-Gohonzon was inscribed on October 12, 1279. In fact, they agree on most theories and doctrines. Where they differ now is in the heritage of the lifeblood inherited exclusively through the successive high priests from Nichiren on down. If you substitute the three successive presidents and the organization for the idea of the successive high priests, it’s hard to see a lick of difference between them theologically." -- BlancheFromage
blanche - they are both the same. end of story.
ReplyDeleteSince we are on the subject "In terms of doctrine, they both believe that Nichiren is the true Buddha of Mappo. They both believe that Nichiren is the true Buddha and Shakyamuni is transient"
ReplyDeleteI have been told by Kumiko who knows how the Soka Gakkai thinks, that these statements are old; They don't believe that Nichiren is the true Buddha period but rather Shakyamuni
Mark, Kumiko wants to know if you believe if there is 50% chance that Nichiren could of been one with the 3 Bodied Tathagatta Thus come on a successive bases going back as far as the historical Shakyamuni has been Buddha in his past lives
"I have been told by Kumiko who knows how the Soka Gakkai thinks, that these statements are old; They don't believe that Nichiren is the true Buddha period but rather Shakyamuni."
DeleteI think it is crucial to view the SGI's *beliefs* in the context of the their conduct. There is a stunning absence of reference to Shakyamuni that is anything but cursory. This stunning fact accounts for Greg's commenting that the SGI's practice is 5% Buddhism--which I think is a very generous over-estimation!
Am I making this up? Well, let's look inside "The Quotable Nichiren"- words for daily living, published by the Soka Gakkai - here is the description on the inside flap of the cover of this *essential guide to faith and practice in the SGI*:
"Nichiren Daishonmin wrote with passion, courage, tenderness and a poetic spirit in his lifelong efforts to liberate the human spirit. Whether addressed to a single mother, samurai warriors, fellow priests, elderly couples or everyday people, his letters convey his deep compassion and clear message on how to lead a life of happiness.
We cherish the hundreds of letters that have been preserved over the centuries as the basis of our faith and practice. Yet the sheer volume of the writings sometimes makes it hard to find the encouragement you need or the passage you're looking for.
THE QUOTABLE NICHIREN solves this dilemma. With hundreds of passages arranged by topics, you're sure to find the inspiration you're seeking, whether it is for yourself or a friend. This portable reference, the first of its kind in English, will surely become an invaluable resource for your practice of Nichiren Buddhism."
Wow! Right? But that's not all. There are also plenty of Ikeda guides to *interpreting* the passages, and handy definitions for the Buddhist terms you are not likely to hear much about at a SGI meeting... Let's see what we the "Quotable Nichiren" has to say about Shakyamuni:
Ah-- here is the quick reference from the topic, "Buddhahood"-- in the corner of a page, under the heading : "People to Know":
"As a young man, Shakyamuni was not content with his princely life. He left the palace he grew up in and set out to answer life's fundamental questions. He eventually awakened to the fact that all human beings have the seed for Buddhahood. He dedicated the remainder of his life to teaching how all people could uncover their innate wisdom."
To get a sense of how SGI views Nichiren, a Christian perspective is helpful. SGI teaches that Nichiren *risked his life* to inscribe the Dai-Gohonzon, for all mankind , so that we all can attain enlightenment, or a state of *absolute, sublime happiness*. All members have to do is chant to it, contribute $$ to the SGI, attend SGI activities, and convince others to join the SGI ! SGI is grateful to Nichiren for his efforts on our, SGI members' behalf, but unless members form a bond with President Ikeda, become *his* disciple, following his teachings for being the *perfect disciple* -- just as he, himself was Toda's perfect disciple, SGI members cannot manifest the great benefit of the Daishonmin's teachings.
SGI members don't know doctrine from donuts!
~Katie
Thanks Katie.
Delete"sgi doesn't know doctrine from donuts" - katie.
Deleteabsolutely true! same with the shoshit.
"Thus, in the various sutras other than the Lotus Sutra, Shakyamuni does not assemble Buddhas who carry out different austerities and practices and who possess the three bodies, nor does he identify them as emanations of himself. [Only in the “Treasure Tower” chapter of the Lotus Sutra does he do so.] This chapter, then, is intended as an introduction to the “Life Span” chapter that follows later. Shakyamuni Buddha, who was believed to have attained enlightenment for the first time only some forty years previously, calls together Buddhas who had become enlightened as long as one or even ten kalpas ago, and declares that they are emanations of himself. This is a far cry indeed from the Buddha’s usual preaching on the equality of all Buddhas [in their Dharma bodies], and in fact a cause of great astonishment. If Shakyamuni had attained enlightenment for the first time only some forty years earlier, there could hardly have been so many beings in the ten directions who had received his instruction. And even if he was privileged to possess emanations, there would have been no benefit in his showing them to his listeners. T’ien-t’ai, describing what went on in the astonished minds of the assembly, says, “It was evident to them that Shakyamuni Buddha possessed numerous emanations. Therefore, they understood that he must have attained enlightenment in the far distant past.”
ReplyDeleteShe has read The Opening of the Eyes - Kaimoku Sho - Part Two
DeleteCould you answer in your own words like a simple Yes or NO to her question
"Do you believe if there is 50% chance that Nichiren could of been one with the 3 Bodied Tathagatta Thus come on a successive bases going back as far as the historical Shakyamuni has been Buddha in his past lives?"
Thanks
Two but not two, one but not one.
DeleteSo does this mean that Nichiren could of been one with the 3 Bodied Tathagatta Thus come on a successive bases going back as far as the historical Shakyamuni has been Buddha in his past lives or did Nichiren gain enlightened for the fist time in Japan over 700 years ago ?
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIf Nichiren has been enlightened as far back as Shakyamuni that NST seem to believe he would of have to of been one with the Ancient, Primordial, Original, Eternal 3 bodied Tathagatta Thus Come One, Musa Sanjin Buddha, like Shakyamuni was in his past lives
ReplyDeleteAs long as one does not confuse the general with the specific, Nichiren was himself the three bodied tathagata an emanation of the Original Eternal Buddha. Shakyamuni Buddha of India in a specific sense was a manifestation of the Eternal Buddha, Nichiren and we, in a general sense.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Delete"Nichiren was himself the three bodied tathagata an emanation of the Original Eternal Buddha"
DeleteTaho, Amida, Dainichi, Many Treasures etc are emanations of the Original Eternal Buddha are representations of partial truths not real people like Nichiren and Shakyamuni who are not emanations
Specific means that a true Buddha is anyone who becomes one with the Original Eternal Buddha and acts as a true Buddha - the behaviour as a decent Human Being
General is One that cultivates experiences as in the temporary oneness with the Original Eternal Buddha as in the 3,000 realms within a single, eternal moment and those who don't practise that have in them as a latent potential of the Original Eternal Buddha are both Bodhisattvas of the Earth but have not yet become one with Original Eternal Buddha in the same way as Nichiren and Shakyamuni have achieved
"The Lotus Sutra states that Bodhisattva Superior Practices and the others will appear in the first five hundred years of the Latter Day of the Law to propagate the five characters, the embodiment of the two elements of reality and wisdom. The sutra makes this perfectly clear. Who could possibly dispute it? I, Nichiren, am neither Bodhisattva Superior Practices nor his envoy, but I precede them, spreading the five characters to prepare the way. Bodhisattva Superior Practices received the water of the wisdom of the Mystic Law from the Thus Come One Shakyamuni and causes it to flow into the wasteland of the people’s lives in the evil world p.747of the latter age. This is the function of wisdom. Shakyamuni Buddha transferred this teaching to Bodhisattva Superior Practices, and now Nichiren propagates it in Japan.
With regard to the transfer of teachings, it is divided into two categories: general and specific. If you confuse the general with the specific even in the slightest,3 you will never be able to attain Buddhahood and will wander in suffering through endless transmigrations of births and deaths.
For example, the voice-hearers in Shakyamuni Buddha’s lifetime received the seeds of Buddhahood from Shakyamuni in the distant past when he was the sixteenth son of the Buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence. Therefore, they could not attain enlightenment by following Amida, Medicine Master, or any other Buddha. To illustrate, if a family member brings home water from the ocean, the entire family can use it. But were they to refuse even a single drop of that water and instead go looking for water from some other ocean, it would be terribly misguided and foolish. In the same way, to forget the original teacher who had brought one the water of wisdom from the great ocean of the Lotus Sutra and instead follow another would surely cause one to sink into the endless sufferings of birth and death.
One should abandon even one’s teacher if he or she is misguided, though there will be cases where this is not necessary. One should decide according to the principles both of the world and of Buddhism. Priests in the Latter Day of the Law are ignorant of the principles of Buddhism and are conceited, so they despise the correct teacher and fawn on patrons. True priests are those who are honest and who desire little and yet know satisfaction. Volume one of The Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra states: “Those who have yet to attain the truth should humble themselves before the highest principle, which is comparable to heaven, and feel abashed before all the sages. Then they will be monks with a sense of shame. When they manifest insight and wisdom, then they will be true monks.”
The Essentials for Attaining Buddhahood
"What inspired Shakyamuni to devote himself to religious practice over kalpas equal in number to dust particles in an effort to attain Buddhahood? It was nothing other than the ideal of filial devotion. All the living beings of the sixth paths and the four forms of birth are our fathers and mothers. Therefore, as long as Shakyamuni was unable to treat them all with filial devotion, he refrained from becoming a Buddha. "
ReplyDelete"The Lotus Sutra offers a secret means for leading all living beings to Buddhahood. It leads one person in the realm of hell, one person in the realm of hungry spirits, and thus one person in each of the nine realms of existence to Buddhahood, and thereby the way is opened for all living beings to attain Buddhahood."
"Shakyamuni Buddha is honored with the title World Honored One because, among all the persons noted for their filial devotion, he is the most outstanding."
"Hence people of the two vehicles are referred to as those who do not know how to repay their debt of gratitude, and it is taught that they will never attain Buddhahood. this is because they do not universally manifest their sense of filial devotion.
The Buddha became enlightened to the Lotus sutra, and as a result of filial devotion that he showed to the mothers and fathers of the six paths and the four forms of birth, his person was endowed with blessings.
And these blessings enjoyed by the Buddha can be transferred by him to people who put their faith in the Lotus Sutra."
Even people who seek knowledge and wisdom for themselves, and have no particular desire to repay debts of gratitude to all living beings, can attain Buddhahood by putting their *faith* in the Lotus Sutra. The practical application of this one teaching is a lifelong practice. Either ignoring the significance of the Buddha's behavior as a human being or assigning *other worldly* credentials to the Buddha seems like a divergence from Nichiren's teachings.
~Katie
"Either ignoring the significance of the Buddha's behavior as a human being because among all the persons noted for their filial devotion, he is the most outstanding" Yes that's right
Delete"assigning *other worldly* credentials to the Buddha seems like a divergence from Nichiren's teachings"
Not sure what is meant by *other worldly* and why it would be a divergence. I guess it depends on the definition of *other worldly*. If it means for example like going to Amida's pure Land forever then Yes
I am trying to distinguish between focusing on ourselves as human beings; our environment as the saha world and our predicament with regard to being born in the Latter Day of the Law AND contemplating ethereal constructs that are beyond comprehension. The former produces a knowledge base the latter calls for speculation. Nichiren's teachings are comprehensive, consistent, and practical.
Delete~Katie
~Katie
"Either ignoring the significance of the Buddha's behavior as a human being because among all the persons noted for their filial devotion, he is the most outstanding" Yes that's right
ReplyDeleteWhat does it mean his behavior as human being? In the Nirvana Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha took up arms and lost his life in order to protect the Law. Certainly, it doesn't mean not to curse nor being rude to grouchy farts. Not in Mappo. Not in this Latter Day. What Nichiren teaches is that Shakyamuni Buddha was respectworthy for preserving, upholding, and widely proclaiming the Lotus Sutra.
Assigning ONLY secular behavioral matters to the Buddha too is rather shortsighted, especially in this age of horrors. Nichiren say that his disciples are men stained with the Three Poisons.
I appreciate the full spectrum of behavior associated with protecting, defending and upholding the Lotus Sutra-- so am not equating *outstanding filial devotion* with touchy feely conduct, much less referring to the True Buddha as a Mother Theresa figure.
DeleteThe True Buddha's outstanding achievement is awakening to and teaching a means for *saving all living beings*... including those who aren't prone to considering their own salvation in terms of connection to or even contingent on saving others. The Lotus Sutra itself is the means. Even greedy, selfish people can attain enlightenment IF they put faith in the Lotus Sutra-- protect it, defend it, practice it and propagate it. Presumptively, many who encounter the Lotus Sutra will embrace it for purely selfish motives. Yet, so long as they assiduously recite it while seeking the Buddha, they will as a matter of course attain * the same blessings as the True Buddha*
My point is that THIS practical, specific focus pervades Nichiren's writings, as does the singular significance of Shakyamuni Buddha whose *one constant thought* was based on the *ideal of filial devotion*-- THAT, to me, is a capacity, a quality, a human potential that I revere, and for me, the main reason I would put faith in the teachings of *such a person*, as Shakyamuni. I interject this arbitrary opinion just to illustrate that I realize my motivation, though unique to me, is equal to anyone's in terms of being the catalyst for practicing as Nichiren taught.
Expressions of dynamics related to "3 bodied Tathagatta Thus Come One, Musa Sanjin Buddha", have more in common with the theology of the major World Religions-- where esoteric concepts are elevated to a realm above and beyond the average person, and thus are the *claim to fame * of clerics and the priestly class.
I do not claim to know who is an emanation of whom, or IF there is some separate eternally existing source of enlightenment that Shakyamuni *accessed*--- But, I would argue for maintaining solid ground with regard to the path to enlightenment that Nichiren teaches in detail, and upon which he places emphasis on our being human beings living in mappo.
I believe that defending the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren's reverence for Shkyamuni requires strong opposition to that which detracts from or creates confusion regarding the prime point of correct faith and practice. AND that this is what clearly delineates Nichiren's followers from SGI/NST- the funi-twins!
In my humble opinion--
~Katie
Excellent.
Delete"Before the multitude they seem possessed of the three poisons
ReplyDeleteor manifest the signs of distorted views." Lotus Sutra Chaptr 8
and
"Now, in the Latter Day of the Law, though the teaching, the people’s capacity, and the time for propagation are in accord, we must expect all the more hostility. For this is the age when quarrels and disputes prevail, and the pure Law is obscured and lost.1 Moreover, the teacher is but an ordinary practitioner, and his disciples come from among evil people defiled by the three poisons. For this reason, people shun the good teacher and associate with evil teachers." -- On Practicing the Buddhas Teachings
And they continue to shun the *good teacher* even though the Lotus Sutra specifies the Law, the Teaching as supreme, and thus casts the spotlight on *the teaching*-- NOT of the stature of the person who is preaching it. --and warnings abound in the Lotus Sutra to regard with skepticism and suspicion those of high standing who *claim to have attained what they have not attained*.
DeleteStrictly speaking, if one were to completely embrace the Lotus Sutra, one would avoid SGI, NST-- and indeed any ostensible religious organization like the PLAGUE that they all are!!
~Katie
Yes.
ReplyDelete