Buddha banter

Julian [former SGI member and currently Nichiren Shoshu member]: You wrote: "SGI has been taking a beating lately." 

Dream on Doc. We have lost nothing. We cannot be stopped.

Mark: You guys been getting whupped by everyone, even the Nichiren Shoshu.

Julian: Really. You have a quaint and niave belief in the power of the written word.There is no point in arguing with me about this as I am simply stating my opinion which, unless I am cheating, will always be diffferent to yours.

Mark: Your Zen background is apparent. You should try to convert your Zen buddies on t.r.b. and alt. Zen instead of sucking up to them with Zen speak. Nichiren was a scriptural Buddhist. You are a Zenman in SGI clothing. It fits you well. 

Julian: You won't recruit me and I doubt that your arguing  will win anyone else over.

Mark: You serve the purpose of the Buddha whether we convert you or not. By revealing the inconsistency in  SGI teachings and your lack of knowledge of the Gosho and Lotus Sutra, many will convert. It is just a matter of time. We are patient.

Getting back to the discussion, The .SGI members here are losing every debate, every point and all credibility.. 

Julian: By what criteria do you judge? You do not appear to be objective. 

Mark: The Three Proofs, Nichiren Daishonin's criteria. 

Julian: But is there no better judge than you?

Mark: Has the SGI been winning any converts here? If so, let them speak up. I know that you have lost quite a few. I will name them if you like. It is actual proof. 

The same fate [of losing the debates] would befall the top senior leaders were they to join the battle and they know it.

Julian: Equally as you would if you tried someone else's job.... like you have!

Mark: Please speak English. I don't get your point. 

Julian: It is not the role of SGI leaders to participate on ARBN.

Mark: What chapter of the Lotus Sutra and passages of Gosho teach different roles for lay leaders and their members? There are passages that demonstrates that "leaders" [priests] are to take the lead in the forceful practices but your leaders are nowhere to be found.

Julian: There is nothing in the Lotus Sutra that sets in concrete the way that SGI should be run or organised. 

Mark: Chapter 15 of the Lotus Sutra outlines the organization of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth.. 

Julian: The Lotus Sutra is not an organization manual (at least primarily) but a tool for attaining enlightenment. Why not use it as such.

Mark: Why not use it period. Why spend, 95% of your time on Ikeda's writings and 5% on the Lotus Sutra. Maybe the World Tribune is a better tool than the Lotus Sutra?

Your leaders are cowardly generals who remain behind, eating caviar and filet mignon, while sending the young men to the front lines to get slaughtered by the superior forces.

Julian: Speaking as a non-leader of SGI.... This is not true. 

Mark: I could care less about your arbitrary Gakkai status. My assertion stands. 

Julian: But you do care about peoples "arbitary Gakkai status."You keep going on about how the leaders are letting us down.

Mark: Mentioning it from time to time is going on? They are not only letting you down but the Law. They have sold out. 

Julian: When I say going on I mean lying.

Mark: I am not lying about their mid-six figure salaries for doing the same job you do for free. What are they, accomplished writers, artists, athletes, or professionals? If you are blind to it you are a fool. 

Julian: It is not possible for another person, SGI leader or anyone else, to let me down. The sort of thing is entirely my responsibility.

Mark: You are denying dependent origination. People are like sheep in this evil filled Latter Day. Animality is the rule. The autocracy of the SGI is a Machiavellian dream come true. They are the vilest sort of people that you are defending. They HAVE let you down.

Julian: Projecting again. Not so long ago, you would have been using leeches on people. Yuk. And a ripoff.

Mark: Plastic surgeons still use sterile leeches. There is no more sanitary and effective way to reduce facial swelling. Likewise, the forceful practices of the Lotus Sutra is the most effective way to reduce slander.

Discussion changed:

Mark: Nichiren lived and died a modest man.

Julian: Follow his example.

Mark: Materially he lived a modest life but spiritually he was the outspoken king of the Law. We inherit Nichiren's legacy and will never stop speaking out against SGI's mistaken views, teachings, and practices. If what I [or anyone] says is correct, it should be accepted. If wrong, it should be rejected. This is the modesty that derives from the Law. Since you have yet to prove me wrong, my views should be accepted. 

Getting back to your top leaders. They are the worst types pf prevaricators, liars, self-serving hypocrites, materialists, and holier than though pompous fools.

Julian: And you have no humans in your group?

Mark: We have Buddhas and bodhisattvas in our group who would rather go hungry than enrich themselves at the expense of the Law and our fellow believers. Our masters are Shakyamuni Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin whose behavior was exemplary. Your leaders, especially the top Japanese leaders are shallow and crooked. They follow a man bereft of morals and ethics, let alone common decency.

Julian: This is a racist statement. You are distinguishing between people on a Race/Nationality basis. 

Mark: No Julian. I am pointing out their tainted relationship with the Law. It is an argument of money and power corrupting an organization which calls itself "Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism". They receive mid six figure salaries for entering the room of the Buddha, donning the robe of the Buddha, and taking the seat of the Buddha. It is a great slander.

It is even more disgusting the way they sniff president Ikeda's behind as if it was tamilapada sandalwood as they laud it over the members. SGI is the World of Animality.

Julian: How much you on Doc?

Mark: Speak plainly Julian, I don't get your point. 

Julian: Speaking plainly Doc. If you want it chant for it.

Mark: Oh, I forgot, you [Julian was a former Zen adherent] are speaking in a koan. I should have realized it. Since I am not a Zen Buddhist, you will have to solve your koan for me before I can respond.

Julian: What is the going rate for conning people about death?

Mark: I get it now, you can't respond to my points so you are attacking me, accusing me of being jealous of the Japanese senior leaders and criticizing me for using SGI leaders deaths to teach the Law. Interesting koan.

Julian: They have jobs to do. I havent finished speaking with them [the leaders] yet. 

Mark: You wouldn't speak frankly with them if they were your own father in law. 

Julian: Please post some evidence of my communications with the SGI leaders. I, Julianlzb87 giving several opportunities for Doc to prove his point.

Mark: OK. Why don't you tell me what they said when you asked them where the members money goes and why their doctrines contradict the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren Daishonin? You can also ask them why the omnipotent mentor makes so many mistakes regarding the teachings.