| doc |
| More options Jun 8 1997, 1:00 am |
Someguy, you write:
>>>>>Well, then, why do you do it? I'm at a bit of a loss.>>>>>
It beats going to SGI meetings:-)
I'm not going to argue with either of those quotes. Neither, though, am
I going to write off Mother Teresa as useless, for trying the best way
she knows. Perhaps she'd accomplish more by chanting daimoku - do you
think it's likely she'd convert?>>>>>
Less than useless. I just ask you to stop calling yourself a Nichiren
Buddhist. Ikeda Buddhist is more like it. If the Daishonin were alive,
he would have a few cogent arguments refuting, Mother Theresa,
her priest (John Paul), and their god.
You can call me "Foolish Eric." Or you can follow the example of other
people on this board and call me names. Or, hell, you can call me in the
middle of the night and whisper sweet nothings in my ear, who knows, I
might enjoy it.>>>>>
Give me your number and I will whisper sweet somethings: The
sweet dew of the Law.
> >>>>> Would you actually have others die because they are not members
I dunno, this seems to be what you were saying. If I'm wrong, tell me
why. Without quoting me 800 pages of gosho. I've read gosho. I want to
know about what YOU were trying to say.>>>>>
I was saying that any type of good works have only relative worth.
Shakabuku has absolute worth. If these relatively meritworthy actions are
confused with absolutly meritworthy actions, they become, not only not
even relatively meritworthy, but devilish functions. As long as they are
understood in their proper perspective they are relatively meritworthy.
Nichiren's Buddhism is a religeous movement with secular overtones not a
secular movement with religeous overtones (as the SGI is becoming).
Another example is Ryokan. if you measure merit or "caring" by "good works"
or social causes, a non-Nichiren Buddhist might look up to Ryokan. But we all
know what Nichiren thought of Ryokan. Yours is a shallow shortsighted view,
obviously from one who knows little about Nichiren's teachings or even performing
"good works." Why don't you tell us a little about yourself and your "strategy" for
curing what ails the world.
Personally, I'm going to chant a bunch of daimoku. With any luck, and
strong faith, perhaps I can get others to join me.>>>>>
That is more worthwhile than thirty SGI book exchanges with Africa or
Mother Theresa nursing hundreds of lepers in the streets of New Delhi.
In the meantime, though, I have no intention of trying to belittle the good
efforts of those who have other religious convictions, even if I do think that they
are wrong.>>>>>
Nichiren's harsh condemnation of the Ritsu, Pure Land and Zen was
belittlement. He realized that evil doctrines, when a source of confusion,
have to be dealt with forcefully. Shakabuku is break and subdue.
>>>>> Wait...let's see...quoting Mark
>"The SGI's offerings are not much differnt than Mother Theresa's. According
> to Nichiren, the only solution to mankinds problems, both individual and
>collective is the establishment of the right Law. Attempting to resolve problems
>one by one.by through either charitable or secular means alone, is a shortsighted
>approach. You know the axiom, give a man a fishand he eats for a day, teach him
>how to fish and he eats for a lifetime
I stand by this from both a doctrinal, theoretical, and actual experiential point of view.
I imagine you would. It's kind of sad.>>>>>
What's sad is that you go against the teachings of our leader, Nichiren Daishonin.
You abandon his teachings for those of Ikeda. You and the SGI are traitors to the faith.
This is an exact quote, I have not altered it in any way. Basically, if I'm understanding
this right, Mark would have us beleive that the Daishonin does NOT want us to save
somebody who is drowning, or burning, or dying in ANY fashion, because it is merely
a superficial problem that does not take cognizance of the real solution of the
That wasn't the question. If you were in a position to save someone who was drowning,
or choking, or caught in a fire, or even just to help someone's suffering EVEN IF only
transiently, would you not do it because they do not practice the Daishonin's Buddhism?>>>>>
Silly Eric. Of course I would. Not only would I help them, but I would remain humble
knowing that, what I did, was but relatively meritworthy.
Then I can go about my merry little way, assured that someone who claims to be a
Nichiren Buddhist is not really as cold, callous, and heartless as you have made
yourself out to be.>>>>>
Only a non-Nichiren Buddhist would see my words as cold, callous, and
heartless. Was the Daishonin cold, callous and heartless? If you say "no",
I can supply passages that a non-Nichiren Buddhist would construe as cold and
heartless [because they perfectly mimic my words]. If you say yes, then you would
be revealing your true self and I can begin to show you where you err. SGI is Nichiren's
Buddhism in name only.
>>>>> I'm making this extreme, I realize. All I want you to do is say "No, of course
I would help them." Then I can go about my merry little way, >>>>>
I think, you will be going on your merry way soon enough. If you choose to stay,
I welcome you.
Should I stop saying hi to people?
No, don't stop saying hi to people. Just stop believing that saying hi to people is
the cause for either yours or their enlightenment. It's deeper than that .
Of course it is. I don't argue it. Neither, however, will I disconnect myself from the
physical world I live in.>>>>>
You couldn't if you tried.
>>>>>Message-ID: <33977025....@some.isp.com>
> Disreguard? I've treated and continue to treat more AIDS
> patients, both drawing their blood and cleaning their diarrhea than you
> could ever imagine. I've been stuck with more AIDS needles and AIDS
> tainted scalpels than one should ever be stuck with. Realizing that there
> are limitations to the effectiveness of all strategies save the Lotus
> Sutra. Nichiren Daishonin writes:
> Disreguard? I've treated and continue to treat more AIDS
> patients, both drawing their blood and cleaning their diarrhea than you
> could ever imagine. I've been stuck with more AIDS needles and AIDS
> tainted scalpels than one should ever be stuck with. Realizing that there
> are limitations to the effectiveness of all strategies save the Lotus
> Sutra. Nichiren Daishonin writes:
>>>>>Well, then, why do you do it? I'm at a bit of a loss.>>>>>
It beats going to SGI meetings:-)
> "When one comes to the end of his good fortune, no strategy
> whatsoever will avail."
>
> and
>
>"Employ the strategy of the Lotus Sutra before any other."
>
> and
>
>"The heart of strategy and swordsmanship derives from the
>Mystic Law"( all quotes above from The strategy of the Lotus Sutra).
> whatsoever will avail."
>
> and
>
>"Employ the strategy of the Lotus Sutra before any other."
>
> and
>
>"The heart of strategy and swordsmanship derives from the
>Mystic Law"( all quotes above from The strategy of the Lotus Sutra).
I'm not going to argue with either of those quotes. Neither, though, am
I going to write off Mother Teresa as useless, for trying the best way
she knows. Perhaps she'd accomplish more by chanting daimoku - do you
think it's likely she'd convert?>>>>>
Less than useless. I just ask you to stop calling yourself a Nichiren
Buddhist. Ikeda Buddhist is more like it. If the Daishonin were alive,
he would have a few cogent arguments refuting, Mother Theresa,
her priest (John Paul), and their god.
> >>>>>Do you actually have no feeling for any person other than
> yourself?>>>>>
> Foolish Someguy.
> yourself?>>>>>
> Foolish Someguy.
You can call me "Foolish Eric." Or you can follow the example of other
people on this board and call me names. Or, hell, you can call me in the
middle of the night and whisper sweet nothings in my ear, who knows, I
might enjoy it.>>>>>
Give me your number and I will whisper sweet somethings: The
sweet dew of the Law.
> >>>>> Would you actually have others die because they are not members
of your religion?>>>>>
> Ignorant Someguy.
> Ignorant Someguy.
I dunno, this seems to be what you were saying. If I'm wrong, tell me
why. Without quoting me 800 pages of gosho. I've read gosho. I want to
know about what YOU were trying to say.>>>>>
I was saying that any type of good works have only relative worth.
Shakabuku has absolute worth. If these relatively meritworthy actions are
confused with absolutly meritworthy actions, they become, not only not
even relatively meritworthy, but devilish functions. As long as they are
understood in their proper perspective they are relatively meritworthy.
Nichiren's Buddhism is a religeous movement with secular overtones not a
secular movement with religeous overtones (as the SGI is becoming).
Another example is Ryokan. if you measure merit or "caring" by "good works"
or social causes, a non-Nichiren Buddhist might look up to Ryokan. But we all
know what Nichiren thought of Ryokan. Yours is a shallow shortsighted view,
obviously from one who knows little about Nichiren's teachings or even performing
"good works." Why don't you tell us a little about yourself and your "strategy" for
curing what ails the world.
Personally, I'm going to chant a bunch of daimoku. With any luck, and
strong faith, perhaps I can get others to join me.>>>>>
That is more worthwhile than thirty SGI book exchanges with Africa or
Mother Theresa nursing hundreds of lepers in the streets of New Delhi.
In the meantime, though, I have no intention of trying to belittle the good
efforts of those who have other religious convictions, even if I do think that they
are wrong.>>>>>
Nichiren's harsh condemnation of the Ritsu, Pure Land and Zen was
belittlement. He realized that evil doctrines, when a source of confusion,
have to be dealt with forcefully. Shakabuku is break and subdue.
>>>>> Wait...let's see...quoting Mark
>"The SGI's offerings are not much differnt than Mother Theresa's. According
> to Nichiren, the only solution to mankinds problems, both individual and
>collective is the establishment of the right Law. Attempting to resolve problems
>one by one.by through either charitable or secular means alone, is a shortsighted
>approach. You know the axiom, give a man a fishand he eats for a day, teach him
>how to fish and he eats for a lifetime
I stand by this from both a doctrinal, theoretical, and actual experiential point of view.
I imagine you would. It's kind of sad.>>>>>
What's sad is that you go against the teachings of our leader, Nichiren Daishonin.
You abandon his teachings for those of Ikeda. You and the SGI are traitors to the faith.
This is an exact quote, I have not altered it in any way. Basically, if I'm understanding
this right, Mark would have us beleive that the Daishonin does NOT want us to save
somebody who is drowning, or burning, or dying in ANY fashion, because it is merely
a superficial problem that does not take cognizance of the real solution of the
> establishment of the Law.>>>>>
You fail to understand because you are a Nichiren Buddhist in name only. You know
nothing of the Causal Law and the Law of Karma. Sure, on one level, "good deeds",
which are transient and barely scratch the surface of Buddhist causality, are of minimal
worth and merit. Even your Sensei used to teach that it was more respectworthy to
do one shakubuku than save a thousand drowning men.
You fail to understand because you are a Nichiren Buddhist in name only. You know
nothing of the Causal Law and the Law of Karma. Sure, on one level, "good deeds",
which are transient and barely scratch the surface of Buddhist causality, are of minimal
worth and merit. Even your Sensei used to teach that it was more respectworthy to
do one shakubuku than save a thousand drowning men.
That wasn't the question. If you were in a position to save someone who was drowning,
or choking, or caught in a fire, or even just to help someone's suffering EVEN IF only
transiently, would you not do it because they do not practice the Daishonin's Buddhism?>>>>>
Silly Eric. Of course I would. Not only would I help them, but I would remain humble
knowing that, what I did, was but relatively meritworthy.
Then I can go about my merry little way, assured that someone who claims to be a
Nichiren Buddhist is not really as cold, callous, and heartless as you have made
yourself out to be.>>>>>
Only a non-Nichiren Buddhist would see my words as cold, callous, and
heartless. Was the Daishonin cold, callous and heartless? If you say "no",
I can supply passages that a non-Nichiren Buddhist would construe as cold and
heartless [because they perfectly mimic my words]. If you say yes, then you would
be revealing your true self and I can begin to show you where you err. SGI is Nichiren's
Buddhism in name only.
>>>>> I'm making this extreme, I realize. All I want you to do is say "No, of course
I would help them." Then I can go about my merry little way, >>>>>
I think, you will be going on your merry way soon enough. If you choose to stay,
I welcome you.
Should I stop saying hi to people?
No, don't stop saying hi to people. Just stop believing that saying hi to people is
the cause for either yours or their enlightenment. It's deeper than that .
Of course it is. I don't argue it. Neither, however, will I disconnect myself from the
physical world I live in.>>>>>
You couldn't if you tried.
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